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How are black holes created? LARGE HADRON COLLIDER

How are black holes created? LARGE HADRON COLLIDER - Physics Forum

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  #1  
Old 09-10-2008, 12:37 PM
John J
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Default How are black holes created? LARGE HADRON COLLIDER



Uncle Al wrote:

Black holes are still theoretical. No?
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  #2  
Old 09-10-2008, 01:11 PM
N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)
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Default How are black holes created? LARGE HADRON COLLIDER

Dear John J:

"John J" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered users see links. ] m...

Google
"dual to a black hole"

.... same / similar results expected with LHC, only with a little
longer lifetime and perhaps more interesting radiation.

David A. Smith


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  #3  
Old 09-10-2008, 02:58 PM
jjs
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Default How are black holes created? LARGE HADRON COLLIDER


"N:dlzc D:aol T:com (dlzc)" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:MHPxk.190$[Only registered users see links. ]...

So a black hole is still a theory, and what is observed is rationalized into
the literature because it's kinda-sorta-like a theoretical object.


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  #4  
Old 09-10-2008, 03:22 PM
dlzc
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Default How are black holes created? LARGE HADRON COLLIDER

Dear jjs:

On Sep 10, 7:58*am, "jjs" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote:
....

Not exactly. You have heard the simile of smashing nucleii together
like breaking a watch, and we look at the fragments like we would
analyze the gears of the watch.

Well at enough energy, *there are no longer gears* coming out... only
energy. No "its only theory" to hide behind... something fundamental
has been found.

And Nature does this to us all time, just not so we can instrument the
place it will occur...

David A. Smith
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  #5  
Old 09-10-2008, 03:40 PM
dlzc
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Default How are black holes created? LARGE HADRON COLLIDER

Dear jjs:

On Sep 10, 7:58*am, "jjs" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote:
....

[Only registered users see links. ]
.... 4 million Suns within 100AU, orbital speed of 5000 km/sec, surface
of last emission really close to event horizon for 4 million Suns.

Observation seems to agree with theory really closely.

David A. Smith
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  #6  
Old 09-10-2008, 05:57 PM
jjs
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Default How are black holes created? LARGE HADRON COLLIDER


"dlzc" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered users see links. ]...
Dear jjs:

On Sep 10, 7:58 am, "jjs" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote:
....

| Not exactly. You have heard the simile of smashing nucleii together
| like breaking a watch, and we look at the fragments like we would
| analyze the gears of the watch.

If I made that simile, it was unintentional. I do understand that something
new is made.

I was referring to the proposition that black holes were, in fact, being
created. In the 'dual to a black hole' (above ref) they propose a theory of
what was occuring, and use the term 'black hole(s)' as a theoretical object
because we still have not created a black hole. Something was created, but
they don't know what oit was, and the black hole theory was presumed (one
has to presume something, I guess). When a black hole is created, (or
visited IRL) then we will know whether or not they actually exist. I would
be cautious in presuming our present model of a black hole is correct, and I
would not like to see it redefined without them declaring something like:
"Well, we are going to have to adjust the previous model of a black hole,
and now it is this..."

I'll stand, at least for now, on my assertion that black holes, as currently
described, do not exist except as a theoretical object.


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  #7  
Old 09-10-2008, 05:58 PM
jjs
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Default How are black holes created? LARGE HADRON COLLIDER


"dlzc" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered users see links. ]...
Dear jjs:

On Sep 10, 7:58 am, "jjs" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote:
....

|[Only registered users see links. ]
|... 4 million Suns within 100AU, orbital speed of 5000 km/sec, surface
|of last emission really close to event horizon for 4 million Suns.

|Observation seems to agree with theory really closely.

Yes, it is encouraging but black holes remain a theory. Remember the aether!
(said like "Remember the (Maine, Alamo...)"


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  #8  
Old 09-10-2008, 10:04 PM
dlzc
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Default How are black holes created? LARGE HADRON COLLIDER

Dear jjs:

On Sep 10, 10:58*am, "jjs" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote:

Aether is Man's model, not necessarily what Nature uses. I still have
not heard how Ilja's surface-to-prevent-singularity-above-the-event-
horizon doesn't interact with incoming matter.

Keep in mind that "theory" implies that it is tested, and Ilja's model
is not looking really good in the observation department.

David A. Smith
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  #9  
Old 09-11-2008, 11:16 AM
funkenstein
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Default How are black holes created? LARGE HADRON COLLIDER

On Sep 10, 5:40*pm, dlzc <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote:

True. Neither one goes anywhere near the event horizon.

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  #10  
Old 09-12-2008, 12:36 AM
Jeff▲Relf
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Default Dense is one thing; infinitely, metaphysically dense is quite another.

You wrote:
“ Keep in mind that "theory" implies that it is tested, and Ilja's
model is not looking really good in the observation department. ”.

How many event horizons have you seen lately ?
Dense is one thing; infinitely, metaphysically dense is quite another.

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