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Why Copenhagen Interpretation is Wrong

Why Copenhagen Interpretation is Wrong - Physics Forum

Why Copenhagen Interpretation is Wrong - Physics Forum. Discuss and ask physics questions, kinematics and other physics problems.

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Old 12-27-2004, 11:43 AM
Posts: n/a
Default Why Copenhagen Interpretation is Wrong

The second part of this message discusses the "Hard Problem" of
quantum physics or what is *behind* the wave function in a
Copenhagen versus Bohm-Bell fashion.

I'll first show why Bohm or Bell Theorem described reality
better than the dry Copenhagen interpretation.

To begin. There is only one thing in mainstream physics (without
resorting to obscure aether or other framework) which can
explains many unexplained phenomena including most of what I and
thousands of others all over the world experienced which I can
provide evidence in time to anyone as I am categorical about it
and have hundreds of people worldwide with doctorate and PDs
that can back what I'd describe. For all of the phenomena to fit
in physics. Albert Einstein, Louis de Broglie, Erwin
Schrodinger, David Bohm, John Stewart Bell have to be correct.
And if they are. They solve all the mechanisms that I've been
looking for.

To begin, the wave function which Copenhagenists stated is just
a mathematical tool may be what the de Broglie camp assumed that
it could have objective reality just like a pebble in the beach.
They are called pilot waves the described the behavior of group
of electrons (This "hidden variable" thing needs a deeper
theory). Combinations of pilot waves may be called for lack of
proper definition "Morphogenetic field". Hence a morphogenetic
field is a component of the wave function of a particular matter.

Before I'll give the historical perspective and why they are
right and try to prove with evidences. I'd state the first
possibility that I believe the electron probability clouds of
atoms can be altered that can change the collective expression
of the material. There are many evidences. Now I'll share
something which I know to be fact but didn't consider over the
years. It is this, the "aura" or morphogenetic field that some
of us deal with is the wave function of the person!

Yes, I reach this conclusion because this aura or morphogenetic
field that we have measured (and we'll show evidences) is not
really there unless perceived or measured... like just
electrons! I'm certain about this because we can sense the
person holofield even if the person is not directly in front of
us. It doesn't matter because the wave function is not located
in physical space. Hence the aura or holofield is not really
located in space. Note I'm talking about the true aura that we
qi healers deal with and not those magnetic emissions or heat
from the body which kirlian photography or other hoax
measurement can claim to see. Now I know many of you think say
"Ah ha, so you only sense the holofield if you measured it even
if the person is not in front, it's proof that it's only a
subjective feeling and doesn't have objective existence". Wrong.
The fact it doesn't have objective existence in space is because
it is a wavefunction hence its objective existence is non local.
Now I have an international team of doctors with good degrees
who are qi healers or pranic healers that can back what I just
said including the holofield non-locality and the fact it is
real and not imagination. See.

[Only registered users see links. ]

[Only registered users see links. ]

Too bad I haven't done qi healing in 6 years already so I lost
the sensitivity of sensing which many qi healers actively doing
it have developed to a very high degree including the doctors
mentioned in the above web site who are manipulating qi on a
daily basis. You can access them in major countries.

Let's get back to the electrons. There are many experiments on
substances which have fast reactions that can be measured in
terms of shape expression or changes in quality which shows that
changing the substances wave function can change its physical
expression. The following is one such test.

[Only registered users see links. ]

Also another one.

[Only registered users see links. ]

There are dozens more from other scientific studies from
different independent teams and I'll dig them up.

The following is a historical account of quantum theory and why
there is reason there is hidden-variable or wave function being
real objectively and not just a mathematical tool. After the
following short quote. I'll comment about superluminal

The following is from an article by Mr. Stenger on intro to
quantum theory:

"The words used to describe quantum mechanics in conventional
physics textbooks were gleaned from the writings of Bohr, Werner
Heisenberg, and Max Born, the primary authors of what is called
the Copenhagen interpretation of quantum mechanics. In
Copenhagen, the wave function is simply a mathematical object
used to calculate probabilities. The results of measurements are
not pre determined, but occur randomly according to the
calculated probabilities. The measuring apparatus must be
treated classically and i s separate from the quantum system
under study. No mechanism is provided for wave function
collapse, and in fact collapse is not predicted by the
Schr"dinger equation.

Louis de Broglie, who first suggested that particles like
electrons have wave properties, proposed in 1927 the first of
the class of what is now called hidden variables theories of
quantum mechanics. He hypothesized that the wave function is a
real field associated with a particle. However, Bohr and his
supporters talked most of the community, including de Broglie
(but not Einstein or Schr"dinger), out of hidden variables and
they lay dormant until being resurrected by David Bohm in th e
1950's. Bohm, who became the major scientific figure in the
quantum mysticism movement, had shown that all the results
obtained with the Schr"dinger equation can be obtained by
familiar classical equations of motion, provided that an
additional quantum potential is added to the equations to
account for quantum effects (Bohm 1952). However, Bohm's theory,
as it was proposed, gave no new empirical predictions; neither
he nor his followers have yet produced a mechanism for
generating a priori the quantum potential.

The hidden variables approach is based on the notion, which
Einstein always believed, that quantum mechanics is fine as far
as it goes, as a statistical theory, but that some deterministic
sub-quantum theory that lies behind physical events remains to
be uncovered. Einstein's famous quotation that "God does not
play dice" referred to this notion, although he thought Bohm's
version was "too cheap" (Born 1971). It should be noted that
hidden variables theories are not properly labelled as
"interpretations" of quantum mechanics since they imply the
existence of a deeper theory, not yet discovered.

In the 1960s, John Bell proved an important theorem about hidden
variables theories. He showed that any deterministic hidden
variables theory capable of giving all the statistical results
of standard quantum mechanics must allow for superluminal
connections, in violation of Einstein's assertion that no
signals can move faster than light (Bell 1964). In the jargon of
the trade, deterministic hidden variables theories are nonlocal.
In popularized language, they are holistic, allowing for
simultaneous connecti ons between all points in space. Bell
proposed a definitive experimental test that has now been
repeated many times with every increasing precision (Aspect
1982). In all cases, the results are fully consistent with
quantum mechanics, requiring deterministic hidden variables, if
they exist, to be nonlocal."

Back to James.

Ok. One problem. Most physicists simply refuse to imagine that
each electron in the world is guided by an invisible
superluminal wave. Bell's theorem shows that all efforts to
eliminate the superluminal character of these waves must fail.
Bell proves (among other things) that is it impossible to
construct a hidden-variable model which explains the facts
without including something that goes faster than light.

Is there evidence in reality for for this superluminal wave?
Maybe the Morphogenetic or Holofield is made up of superluminal
standing wave that can connect anywhere non-locally. Since I
consider the Holofield to be the wave function of the physical
body, then the wave function uses superluminal function as some
physicists suggest..

One thing I've been wondering for weeks is whether qi is a
superluminal energy field, part of the energetic correlates of
the wave functions. Note qi is interactive with the
morphogenetic or holofield. Qi as the following china scientific
experiments show has non-local effect.

[Only registered users see links. ]

So we are now dealing with not only is the wave function
interactive or real like a pebble at the beach and not just
mathematical construct. But what is the energetic correlates of
the wave function. Classic physics and mainstream quantum
physics end by assuming wave function is just mathematical tool
even if some of their peers are suggesting otherwise. What if it
is not just mathematical tool and Einstein, De Broglie, Bohm,
Bell are right??

Copenhagen camp belonging to Uncle Al will state unanimously
they are Bohrian in mind. Well. Prove us Bohmians wrong. Well.
If anyone can show convincely why I am all wrong and wave
function is not interactive by showing a simple experiment why
one can't affect the wave function of matter and also show
convincingly that superluminal communications and Bell Theorem
is all wrong or misunderstood (I can't think of a simple
experiment that can show convincingly. Those not *simple* have
shown to have an effect where the wave function can be altered.
Also you can't tell me to altered the electrons in the monitors
because it's controlled by magnetic field. We are talking here
of very subtle influence affect the wave function of the
collective organism. BTW.. In qi healing, we are treating the
wave function of the biological body which can accelerate the
healing much faster because we are dealing with the primary
cause). If you can show convincely why wave functions can't be
influenced in the conditions set where it acts subtlely. Then
I'm outta here and I'll give up finding explanations in
mainstream quantum physics and instead look for it in Thomson
Aether Physics, etc. in attempting to find explanations for all
the things I and thousands of others in the world experienced.
Pls show with sheer scientific arguments why the Copenhagen is
right. If I'm convinced, and I'll not be bias, then I'll thank
you guys and leave the group. This is the my last grip on
standard physics for explanations of the many unexplained
reality I've encountered. Only an interactive wave function with
its energetic correlates can explain most if not all of them.


James T. Lee
Pranic (Qi) Healing Instute,
Manila Philippines

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Old 12-27-2004, 03:55 PM
Posts: n/a
Default Why Copenhagen Interpretation is Wrong

Consc wrote:

<snip a lengthy tirade>

The universe itself is the only reliable judge of "right" and "wrong"
around here.

The Copenhagen and Bohm "interpretations" are purely aesthetic; it is
all about what visualization helps you feel you understand the theory.

The math of QM is the same either way.

If you want to declare something is "wrong," then demonstrate that it
has *measurable* consequences that are different from its alternative.
Then we can run the experiment and measure 'the truth.'

I feel best about a theory that gives me quantitative results, but then
I am just a chemist - born to empiricize.

Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA

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Old 12-27-2004, 09:20 PM
Posts: n/a
Default Why Copenhagen Interpretation is Wrong

tadchem wrote:

Do you know where to get a mobius coil which many
alleged created non-hertzian fields that can affect
biology? The following site shows how to construct one:

[Only registered users see links. ]

I wonder if somehow it can produce a field that can
affect the wave function of system. Chambers in 1960
shows that quantum potentials in the absence of any EM
fields caused a shift in the wave function of electrons
passing through that space.

Well. I'm no expert in electromagnetics. Only those
people in that field can do experiments with mobius
coil and effect on living system. Actually there
are many done and it has shown to be an effect.
The problem is many don't want to do any experiments
in the first place because they are sure they is
no effect.

why canceling the vector fields can create so
called "scalar wave" which is biologically active.

Bearden has destroyed the concept by producing
exaggerations of its claims like how it can be
used as weapons and cause earthquakes. Maybe
scalar wave is only a programming language of
the wave function.

I really don't know about scalar wave. All I know
is it's not invented by Bearden. Oschman summarized
it in the following about this little known
scalar wave thing and it's historical origin.

[Only registered users see links. ]

Look. This whole thing is a field requiring
multi-disciplinary studies. No one can prove it
by himself. For my part. I just want to get a
mobius coil and see if it has any qi generating
potential or effect on the bioetheric body (or
wave function) of the human body. You or anyone
knows where to buy one complete. I don't want to
built one bec if not done right, it may not work
even if there is a hidden effect.



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Old 12-27-2004, 10:38 PM
Posts: n/a
Default Why Copenhagen Interpretation is Wrong

"Consc" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:1104182451.108033.76420@f14g2000cwb.googlegro ups.com...


I actually have worked with something similar. Apply a DC voltage and it
acts like a long wire - pure resistance at x ohms per meter. Apply an AC
voltage and it becomes an air-core inductor/dipole antenna with its resonant
frequencies dependent upon the length of the wire used and to a lesser
extent on the circumference of the pseudo-torus. It is the electronic analog
of blowing across one end of a hollow pipe.

A 60 foot wire would have a fundamental resonance at 1 cycle/60 nanoseconds,
or about 16-17 megahertz. Harmonics would also resonate at some multiples
of this frequency. Shorter wires will resonate proportionately faster.

The quartz crystal is pure window-dressing unless it is coincidentally
resonant with the coil. Then you are likely to disintegrate the crystal
with piezoelectric resonance (assuming the crystal space group is
piezoelectrically active).

Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA

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copenhagen , interpretation , wrong

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