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EXPLAINING TIME DILATION Below is an excerpt from my essay, "The Time And Motion Relationship",copyright 1996, [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]. All comments are welcome. CHAPTER TWO Common Notions Of Varying Time Rates Part One It is difficult to figure out time. We cannot get beyond Dr. Einstein's premise of time-space interdependence because it bonds time and space as partners absolutely and forever. This has had the effect, evidently, of creating a "blind alley" by discouraging any in-depth consideration of the idea that there may be more relevance to time other than our usual under-standing of it as simply the Siamese twin of space and not much else than that. Therefore, when we think about time, we usually think of it as part of the "continuum" or "fabric" of time and space in which all things exist equally subject to the "force" of time's irresistible and un-wavering flow. However, such a concept requires time to have or to be a force of its own - it requires that time must be energy or must contain energy. Subsequently, that viewpoint leads us to another blind alley where we find that we can't explain certain "loose ends" or, apparent natural contradictions. For example, how can time possibly have/be energy or have/be a force? In order to support the idea of the existence of a "time and space continuum," scientists have had to come up with the notion that there must be such things as time and space "warps," "curvings," "dilations," etc. For many "hard-thinkers," though, it is just too hard to be able to really and truly and successfully imagine the warping or curving of boundless space in any way other than as the literary trick we see used quite often in science fiction stories as a relatively quick and easy way to travel around the universe. It is a task too difficult for us because we are unable to reasonably extend the con-cept of ordinary space far enough to reconcile in our inquiring minds how it could be that empty space can "do", "act", or "perform", any physical act. For scientists to take ideas from science fiction is a risky adventure as it can too easily become a case of the tail wagging the dog, as it were. Absolute space is defined as "…physical space independent of whatever occupies it." Of course, time passes and matter moves, but can we really bestow to physical space the capacity to actually "do" something? And if space could do something, how would we ever know it? Even so, if we wish to (perhaps because of these questions), we can imagine the concept of time being something quite separate and independent indeed from the concept of space, and we shall later discuss just how this may be done. Part Two In a common textbook example of Special Relativity theory, two observers - one of whom is seated inside a moving passenger train while the other is standing outside watching the train pass by - take accurate measurements with their own accurate clocks of the time it takes light to travel from a ceiling lamp to the floor of the train car. The experiment proves (in a surprising conclusion), that time passes slower for the observer riding on the train, but only in comparison to the rate of the passage of time for the other observer standing alongside the railroad tracks. That doesn't seem right, how can an experiment prove such a thing, and why does it apply only to the two observers? It can do so by having the only relevant difference between the two observers being that they are not moving at the same speed. From the viewpoint of the outside observer who took his measurement as the train went by, the light traveled "distance x" in moving from the ceiling to the floor, plus "distance y," which is the distance the train moved in the time it took for the light to travel to the floor of the car. A line tracing the path of a single light particle as it fell would show a diagonal line of travel drawn downward and curving in the direction of the train's movement. For the observer in the train, however, the light particle traveled only as far as "distance x" because the train was not moving past relatively to her, since she was on the same train as the light she meas-ured. For the train rider, then, a line drawn based on her observation would be a simple vertical one because she is moving along inside the train with the photon as it falls. Thus, there is no "distance y" involved in her measurement. In comparing the length of the two lines, the diagonally curved line is longer, meaning that it had to have taken more time for the light to reach the floor, as far as the stationary ob-server is concerned, but less time than that as it pertains to the measurements of the moving observer. If for the stationary observer the event took, e.g., two seconds to occur by his clock, and if for the train passenger it took, say, only one second to occur by her clock, it means that in this bilateral relationship, time passed for the stationary observer at twice the rate that the train passenger underwent, and therefore he aged faster, or more, than the passenger in the moving train. This experiment clearly illustrates the time and motion relationship of inverse proportionality in that the observer moving relatively faster than the stationary observer ac-crued and underwent a slower time rate than the stationary observer. This is an instance where we have obtained two accurate but different time measure-ments of the same event; yet, this hardly seems possible. The speed of light is constant; so it could not be that which changed and caused the difference in the time measurements, verdad? If the speed of light did vary in order to accommodate the situation, that would explain the time differences and we could then say that the speed of light "warped" or "adjusted" to that particular situation, since it would hardly seem possible that the rate of the passage of time could change. If it was the case that the speed of light varied instead of the rate of the passage of time (as opposed to just the passage of time), then time would be a property of the universe, and if that was so, it seems all objects in the universe should age at the same rate. If it is not the case that the speed of light varied during the experiment, however, it seems then that the rea-son for the time differences must indeed have to do with the fact that the measurements were made while each observer was in a different state of motion compared to the other, and so the rate of time varied for each observer inversely proportional to their particular state of motion. Up to this point, many already agree with the latter case, as we shall see below. Within the context of Einstein's time-space interdependence premise, (which is a con-clusion adopted to explain the time differences based on the conviction that the speed of light can not vary) it is said that both time and space must at some unknown point warp, fold, flex, bend, dilate, or curve so as to reconcile the differences in the rates of the passage of time as measured by our two observers. Beyond that context, however, it is extremely difficult if at all possible to apply such physical terms to time and space because neither can be as easily studied as discrete objects. If we think that the rate of the passage of time (or, the rate of ag-ing) is universal, that is to say, if we think that time is, or is part of, a medium or "continuum" in which all things are held equally "captive" - and are thus held equally subject to its immuta-ble flow - then it becomes necessary indeed to invent such terms as time and space "warps" when confronted with such natural inconsistencies of the type shown in the experiment above. On the other hand, if we agree that in our experiment above, the rate of the passage of time varies for the observers due to the difference in the states of motion between them, it is easier for us to think from then on that the reason for the time differences is because each ob-server measured the event from within a time rate corresponding to his or her own state of motion. Remember that both measurements in our train example are accurate and, essentially, the only difference is that one observer is moving faster than the other at the instant that they each measure the light traveling from the ceiling to the floor inside the train car. In the resolution to the so-called Twin Paradox (another common textbook example), it is proposed that a twin who goes off in a spaceship for a few years will return to greet a much older twin brother or sister because the space traveler has had to have increased his/her speed relative to the speed of the earth in order to leave the planet and then return to it, and physical law apparently grants a slower time rate to the accelerating traveler. This is another example where there has been for some time now widespread agreement that the time rates of discrete objects are set inversely proportional to their states of motion. However, at any time when it seems that nature simply and freely "grants" us something, we should be wary of accepting this type of "solution" too readily because in so doing we may miss a good clue. Greek philosopher/scientist Aristotle argued that all heavenly objects trav-eled around the earth because it was in their nature to do so. That had a ring of logic to it then, and even though apparently no better argument was offered as to why it was in their na-ture to do so, many accepted the proposition probably because no exception to it could be observed then, or perhaps because it suited them to accept it. We know now that under that "logic," there couldn't have been any exceptions, as heavenly bodies today still seem to re-volve pell-mell around the earth. We may have acted too eagerly then, and again more recently, in accepting nature's "gifts" as if their "why"s are of little importance to our quests for knowledge concerning real-ity. Yet, it would be just as nice for us to be able to think that we can know why nature should choose one observer over another, as in our examples above, as it would be for us to be able to imagine the quite-unimaginable physical feat of the "warping" or "curving" of time and space. So, if we agree that an object will have a much longer life-span (due to a slower time rate) than another similar object moving at a much lower speed, then we are saying that for any discrete object, time passes at a rate of inverse proportion to its state of motion. If that is so, then, the aging rate of the twin and the spaceship would be slower than on earth at any in-stant whenever the spaceship's speed would become higher in relation to the earth's state of motion in space, rather than at some arbitrary or unknown point in time and space. Thus, upon returning to earth, the traveling twin will have aged less as far as the earthbound twin and all the rest of the people on earth are concerned. Yet another reason why this idea has not been further developed (that time rates vary as a function of the state of motion of matter in space) may be that it seems to disagree with the Relativity claim that there is no absolute motion with respect to space and so motion is mean-ingful only between two or more bodies moving relatively to each other. All visible matter in the universe is in motion; therefore, we cannot locate a stationary point in the universe from which to measure the motion of a single body. Any and all of our measurements of motion may only be obtained by comparison to the relative motion and position of other objects. Nevertheless, is not Einstein's other premise (noted in the third paragraph, page one in the Introduction section) - that time and space are dependent on the state of motion of an ob-server - simply the one exception where motion is meaningful to something other than the relative motion of two bodies? His two premises contradict each other, yet each can stand alone as inductive reasoning, or as "special cases". The premise of the paragraph above holds true when we wish to measure the relative motion of objects in space because that requires only other bodies to enable us to make comparisons between them. Still, my contention that motion is meaningful to something other than just the motion of two bodies, where time is de-pendent on the state of motion of objects, is also relevant and holds true to measurements taken by observers whose states of motion differ, as they do in our moving-train and space-traveler-twin experiments. We have already noted above that it is the difference in the states of motion of the observers that yields consequential outcomes in measurements of time. The latter premise above, however, may also infer to some that the time rates of matter vary solely because observers cause them to vary and so, from there, it is too easy to argue that time rates vary only when and if there are observers around to measure them. Yet, why wouldn't the rate of the passage of time simply depend upon the state of motion of discrete objects, sans observers? The answer is, it does. If we can agree a priori that the diagonal line in our moving-train example is a longer line, whether or not we ourselves actually trace the vertical and curving diagonal fall of the light particle, then we can agree that the differences in the time measurements do not occur only because someone is there to make the measurements, any more than the sunrise depends on someone being there to observe it. Can we not also validly deduce from all of the above that the rate of the passage of time for an object depends on that object's state of motion, and not simply on the fact that two or more bodies are moving relatively to each other? This is a relevant argument because, if it would be true in all cases that motion is important only between two bodies, it could be argued then that time rates vary only when bodies in relative proximity move at relatively different speeds, because in such cases they will affect each other's states of motion and thus each other's time rates, at certain distances from each other. That interpretation has to do with the spatial positioning of bodies and that does indeed require the involvement of both time and space in an interdependent relationship, as Einstein has correctly noted. If it is true instead, though, that time alone - sans space - is dependent on motion, then the rate of the passage of time for an object depends at any given moment upon the current state of motion in space of that single object, regardless of the state of motion or spatial size and position of any other object (except, of course, when the condition of any nearby body is such that it may affect our object's state of motion). A small point, admittedly so, but a rele-vant one nevertheless because if we accept the latter of the two arguments above as true, and if the reader is in agreement with my arguments so far in this chapter, then our goal of freeing the concept of time from its binding ties to the concept of space is therefore achieved. So now, again if the reader agrees, space remains a property of the universe, but time must be recog-nized as an essential property of visible matter, and the rate of the passage of time for an object depends upon the state of motion of that particular discrete object or system, and not necessarily upon an interdependent relationship with space. We can say, if we wish to, and because we can't prove otherwise at the moment, that if time rates accrue to objects in inverse proportion to their states of motion, there must be uni-versal time rates that apply to the varying levels of motion of similar discrete objects in space. That is to say, at the speed of planet Earth in the universe (as it revolves around the Sun, and as the Sun revolves around the galaxy, and as our galaxy races through space), there is within the universe a specific time rate which accrues for the particular state of motion of the earth, and for any similar object which is in the same state of motion, irrespective of their location within the universe. As the Sun moves through space slower or faster than Earth, for example, its time rate varies from Earth's time rate due to the Sun's particular state of motion in space. And if another similar star in another similar galaxy far away moves through the universe in a state of motion similar to our sun, its time rate should be about the same as the time rate of our star. Only in this sense may the property of time be considered a universal imposition of the so- called "force" of the "fabric" of time and space upon objects. If motion is necessary for an object to exist visibly in our universe, and if time is de-pendent upon motion, and if the time rate of an object varies in inverse proportion to its state of motion, then the rate of the passage of time must increase as the object's state of motion slows. Therefore, as an object's time rate increases, its "lifetime" is "used up" (relatively) sooner. This means that the near-absence of motion in matter is likely another natural bound-ary of our universe, like the near-speed of light and the near-absolute zero temperature. These are boundaries set for matter and when matter reaches a state near those limits, it usually changes into another form that can exist beyond those limits or it is prevented by some other way from reaching them in the same form. It is necessary, I'm sure, to clarify my meaning of the phrase, "state of motion," as I use it herein so often: When we speak of an object's state of motion, we usually refer to the ve-locity or momentum of bodies traveling in space. Yet, there is always motion within all real objects, including molecular kinetic energy activity in gases, molecular and atomic vibrations in matter, the motion of particles through space and matter, and there may also be the "outward" motion of matter resulting from the continuing expansion of the universe. Any and all motions of discrete matter are included in the phrase referred to above. In fact, we may say that everything visible in our universe is in motion, which means that as far as we can tell, there is nothing in our universe that is totally motionless, except perhaps, space. Yet, it is gen-erally accepted today that space is still expanding, and that action of expansion may be considered a type of motion when viewed from a certain perspective. TomGee 110604 |
EXPLAINING TIME DILATION What about these Tom? [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...] |
EXPLAINING TIME DILATION "TomGee" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]> wrote in message news:cc2dde17.0411062138.6c90c854@posting.google.c om... Time can have energy, of course it can. Ever had an alarm clock thrown at you? Maybe you have a poor imagination and lack the ability to think in the abstract. It is well known that the lies of Einstein and Hawking - not to mention Newton - were avid S.F readers Absolute space is defined as ".physical space <snip> No, we don't agree. The fact you made this statement indicates you don't have even a basic understanding of relativity Just what is your point? SR than another similar object moving at a much |
EXPLAINING TIME DILATION "TomGee" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]> wrote in message news:cc2dde17.0411062138.6c90c854@posting.google.c om... ROTFLOL....This idiot claimed that his idea about universal time is the same as mine and that he wanted me to give him credit for my idea. My idea about universal time is completely different than his and my idea on universal time was published in a book in 1993 as follows: 1. There is only universal time exists and the rate of passage of universal time is the independent of the state of motion of the clock. 2. An interval of a clock second in the rest frame of the clock (observer) will represent a specfic interval of universal time. 3. The observer can convert his interval of universal time (his clock second) into the observed frame's clock reading using the LT or IRT. 4. This means that a clock second in different frames will represent a different interval of universal time in different frames. Ken Seto |
EXPLAINING TIME DILATION The most pitiful thing I ever heard of was two geezers arguing over who got which deck chair on the Titanic... Tom Davidson Richmond, VA |
EXPLAINING TIME DILATION TomGee wrote: [snip 300 lines of crap] You are an empirical idiot. [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...] <http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/relativ/airtim.html> Hafele-Keating Experiment <http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/> [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...] <http://www.weburbia.demon.co.uk/physics/experiments.html> Experimental constraints on General Relativity Nature 425 374 (2003) <http://relativity.livingreviews.org/Articles/lrr-2003-1/> [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...] <http://www.public.asu.edu/~rjjacob/Lecture16.pdf> Relativity in the GPS system Science 303(5661) 1143;1153 (2004) [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...] [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...] Deeply relativistic neutron star binaries -- Uncle Al [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...] (Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals) [Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...] |
EXPLAINING TIME DILATION Uncle Al <[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...].net> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...].net>... At least I can explain myself. You are a tongue-tied moron who can only post websites to everyone but who can never ever make a single decent argument against anything with which you disagree. How hard is it to find websites? How much thinking does one need to do to refer people to websites, books, and entire libraries of science? Any idiot can do that, right? It takes a brain to posit ideas and supporting arguments, dumbbell, and the fact that you cannot posit either belies your argument that you have a brain. |
EXPLAINING TIME DILATION "Steve Ralph" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...].uk> wrote in message news:<418e14ea$0$4012$[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...].net>... SNIP No, but in such a case, time does not have the energy to throw itself at you; that energy is imparted to the alarm clock by something external to it. A thrown alarm clock does not constitute time having energy of its own to do a physical thing, as you well know. The human brain is not yet sufficiently evolved for us to be able to imagine curved space in its entirety. The best we can do is a "rubber sheet", and that's a hilarious representation. Those who wish to claim they have superior imagination powers are called "psychics". Are you one of 'em? I used to be too, until reality became more strange than fiction to me. My point was in reference to the resolution of SR's Twin Paradox experiment which indicates that faster-moving objects will have slower time rates wrt slower-moving objects. To make such a statement requires me to have more than a basic understanding of Relativity, so your "indication" is false logic. TomGee 110804 |
EXPLAINING TIME DILATION "tadchem" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]>... Just wait til kenseto tries to steal one of your ideas w/o giving you credit; you won't think it's so pitiful then. TomGee |
EXPLAINING TIME DILATION "kenseto" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]> wrote in message news:<txrjd.129894$[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...].com>. .. Total lies, according to his own website, where he claims differently, and by a post where he states he tried to publish his book in 1999 but was not able to do it: From: Ken H. Seto Subject: Re: Open letter to Ken Seto (radical-theory proponents take note!) Newsgroups: sci.physics.relativity Date: 1996/12/08 On 03 Dec 1996, Gordon D. Putsch wrote: haven't you submitted a paper on it to....(Gordon listed four publications) Ken replied: Thank you for the tip. I will certainly follow up on your suggestions I did tried (sic) to submit Model Mechanics for publiscation (sic) but was not successful. Ken Seto On his website, Ken lists three references of his publications, one dated 1998, the second dated 2000, and the third lists no date but is entitled, "The Physics of Absolute Motion". I found only one post from Seto which includes my idea and that was dated 11/16/99, when he responded to a post by Paul B. Anderson dated 11/15/1999. TomGee 110904 |
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