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Ice based air conditioner

Ice based air conditioner - Physics Forum

Ice based air conditioner - Physics Forum. Discuss and ask physics questions, kinematics and other physics problems.


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  #1  
Old 06-20-2004, 04:38 AM
Mike Turco
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Default Ice based air conditioner



I hope my question is "scientific" enough for this group!

My freezer has a fair amount of extra space in it. Easily, a couple of cubic
feet. I'm thinking that the cost of putting water in that space, or some of
those blue ice packs, isn't going to use a lot of extra electricity.

My office is in a spare bedroom in my house. It is just over 200 sq ft, and
the ceiling is 8' high. The house is kind-of built into the side of a
mountain so the insulation is pretty good.

It isn't necessary to cool off the whole room. I'd be happy to just keep the
area cool where I sit. I'm thinking that it would be nice to lower the
temperature by as much as 10, maybe 20 degrees F.

So, my idea is to freeze some water (or whatever), and then drop the frozen
blocks into some contraption that I build out of a Styrofoam cooler and a
fan. My idea is cool water with ice, and then blow air through the water.
Alternatively, to avoid humidity, I might try to rig some sort of radiator
system so that I'm not just pumping water into the atmosphere and making
things worse.

Is this a reasonable idea? I imagine that I could use BTU calculations to
determine whether or not this is feasible. Could somebody please clue me in
on the math?

Thanks,

Mike






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  #2  
Old 06-20-2004, 05:57 AM
tadchem
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Default Ice based air conditioner


"Mike Turco" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:2x8Bc.19371$ey.5073@fed1read06...
cubic
of
and

<snip>

It takes more heat to *make* the ice than the ice could take away.

You would do better to build a makeshift ductwork around the radiator coils
on the back of your freezer and direct the warm air your freezer produces
outside of the house.

When I lived in a small apartment in central Texas (back in the 80's) I used
cardboard from old boxes and duct tape to funnel the waste heat out the
kitchen window. It made a noticeable difference in my electric bill as well
as the temperature.


Tom Davidson
Richmond, VA


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  #3  
Old 06-20-2004, 08:07 AM
Mike Turco
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Default Ice based air conditioner


"tadchem" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered users see links. ]...

If it took less heat, my ice air conditioner would make more ice than it
used, and people would call me The Evil Mr. Freeze! I would create glaciers
in the Pacific Ocean on California's West Coast. Then I would buy all the
property for cheap when people moved away. Then I would reverse my evil
freezer machine, melt the glaciers, and resell all the property to Canada!
That would show 'em, aye?

coils

The freezer is on the other side of the house. I'll freeze the ice there,
and then carry the ice to the machine in my home office. That creates heat,
too, I suppose, but I'll shut my office door and leave that heat outside.

I want to be cool on the few hot days we have a year. This sounds like the
kind of thing I could build, assuming that it could possibly work. It sounds
like an interesting project, but I need to get some idea of how the BTU'
calculations work, or whatever, so that I can come up with a design.

used
well

That is a great energy saving suggestion. If freezers had a heat outlet,
like the duct outlets they have on gas dryers, people could redirect that
heat out of their house.

Mike


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  #4  
Old 06-20-2004, 10:38 PM
wavelength
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Default Ice based air conditioner


Mike Turco <miketurco@yahoo-nospam4me.com> wrote in message
news:2x8Bc.19371$ey.5073@fed1read06...
cubic
of

Unfortunately, energy seldom comes for free.


and
the
frozen

My idea is cool water with ice, and then blow air through the water.

Which raises the questions:

1) How are you going to cool the water with ice ?

2) Where are you going to get a evaporator and the pumps for the plumbing ?

3) And the fan ?

This isnt going to be cheap, why dont you just get a normal AC ?







MY RECOOMENDATION> just buy a good AC


I imagine that I could use BTU calculations to

Yes you could

Could somebody please clue me in

Its all in thermodynamics ( specific heats, insulation factors,
calorimetry ). Its gonna cost you more then what you will get out of it.




Best





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  #5  
Old 06-21-2004, 01:54 PM
Greg Neill
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Default Ice based air conditioner

"Mike Turco" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:2x8Bc.19371$ey.5073@fed1read06...

frozen

Look up "swamp cooler". Could be a much better way to go.


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  #6  
Old 06-21-2004, 04:03 PM
Mark Fergerson
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Default Ice based air conditioner

Mike Turco wrote:


Your freezer works by removing heat from the stuff you
put in it. The more hot stuff you put in it, the more work
it has to do, and that costs electricity (with the "value
added" effect of entropy thrown in; the machine generates
waste heat on top of that).

As has been pointed out, you have to put the total of the
removed heat and waste heat somewhere, preferably outside
your house. Where's it currently going?


A heat pipe sunk into the ground might be cheaper, to
bring the cold up to you, so to speak.


And as the ice melts, it removes heat from the air you
blew through it, producing a cool breeze? Congratulations,
you've just rediscovered the reason why refrigeration
equipment is rated in tons (of ice melted).


Unless you rig this thing so that the meltwater can't
evaporate, you _will_ be putting moisture into the air with
this scheme.

What you call "rigging a radiator system" sounds like
reinventing ordinary air conditioning. But you've introduced
a lot of extra steps what with carting around the blue ice
packs and the extra fan; just get a window AC unit and put
it in your office window.


Well, frinst do you know the heat of fusion of water? If
you do, the rest becomes simple accounting.

Mark L. Fergerson

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  #7  
Old 06-21-2004, 07:17 PM
Mike Turco
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Default Ice based air conditioner


"Mark Fergerson" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:7GDBc.5953$5t2.4855@fed1read01...
cubic
of

The heat from the fridge stays in the house, but its the other side of the
house and I don't think much of the heat makes it over here. I'm already
paying to keep the freezer cold, so it isn't like I'm running a freezer just
to make the ice.


A heat pipe? Interesting, but if it involves a hole through the floor into
the ground, its not going to happen.

frozen
a
water.

OK. I'm getting the picture.

radiator

The window won't take an air conditioner, I'll have to move furniture and
poke a hole in the wall, (which generates a lot of heat, by the way).

to
in

An accountant I'm not, and I don't know what you mean by 'heat of fusion of
water'. I just thought my own AC unit would be an interesting little
project, and that it might save me from having to poke a hole in the wall
for what amounts to just a few hot days a year.

Thanks To everyone for all the feedback!

Mike


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  #8  
Old 06-21-2004, 11:57 PM
N:dlzc D:aol T:com \(dlzc\)
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Default Ice based air conditioner

Dear Mike Turco:

"Mike Turco" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:gvGBc.21482$ey.9843@fed1read06...
....

If I understand what you've said...
We got quite a bit of relief by covering the wall with a blanket. It acts
like an insulator, so less heat is transmitted through the wall into the
room.

calculations
me
of

You'll have to be able to send the heat somewhere. I don't see why you
couldn't pass the piping of a "central AC unit" through an openable window.
A couple of 1/2" copper lines can carry a lot of heat...

David A. Smith


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