Go Back   Science Forums Biology Forum Molecular Biology Forum Physics Chemistry Forum > General Science Forums > Physics Forum
Register Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Physics Forum Physics Forum. Discuss and ask physics questions, kinematics and other physics problems.


Big Bang With a Feeling

Big Bang With a Feeling - Physics Forum

Big Bang With a Feeling - Physics Forum. Discuss and ask physics questions, kinematics and other physics problems.


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-13-2003, 05:26 AM
cinquirer
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Big Bang With a Feeling



Giuliana Conforto who wrote the 350 page book "Man's Cosmic Game LUH"
(available in [Only registered users see links. ] in
the United States) had wanted to figure out the following:

1. How do you create a theory wherein it can explain interconnected of
all the atoms?

2. How do you create a theory wherein conciousness can alter matter.

Conforto used the convensional Standard Model & 4 Fundamental Forces
of particle physics and stretch them to their most limit. The book is
a gem of ideas and good for students of physics to see how the model
can be stretched and up to what degree where it still makes scientific
sense. Let it be an exercise in creativity.

In the 4 fundamental forces... which is Gravity, Strong force, Weak
force and Electromagnetic force (or Electroweak). Gravity is not
involved in the construction of matter, the strong force simpy keeps
the nucleus together. So what is left is the Electroweak. It must be
able to explain all the flexibility and variety of nature. Conforto
wondered how to include consciousness or the concept of
interconnectedness in the Electroweak. She then referred to the Big
Bang. Before the breaking up of symmetry when the Electroweak force is
one. And consciousness is one. Then the Electroweak force must be
manifestation of consciousness. That is. She thought that the
Electroweak must then be connected to Life. During the cold phase of
the universe which is now. The Electroweak separates into the
Electromagnetic Force and Weak Force. The electromagnetic force
causing atoms to form into the elements and matter and the Weak force
beats its rhymth and since consciousness is related ot them. Then the
weak force may be experienced as feelings, emotions, etc. Now since
the weak force is separate in each atom, how do they contact with one
another. Here Conforto developed the concept of particles as
mini-black holes from application of Relativity, Superstrings and
Theory of Everything concepts. Since black holes have event horizons.
Then one side of the Event Horizon is our spacetime as we know it
while the other side is the so called information space. That is, the
source of the interconnected of reality. Since the particles are
connected to one another, then the vectorial bosons are interconnect
too and she called it Heavy Light and believed that the vectorial
bosons is the Force and the prime energy of consciousness, that is
behind human existence. The Force sees atoms as peculiar interactive
mini monitor, composed of elementary particles, which are actually
black and white holes so they are all interactive enough to design all
kinds of matter. So together they built physical bodies from an
interplay of forces, with the end result of the creation of Man. That
he may be the physical manifestation of consciousness acting with his
DNA and cells. Since Conforto believes humans are terminals of cosmic
consciousness, then there must be a mechanism whereby the biological
body can evolve and become superconductor able to conduct more Life or
higher consciousness. Here she attributes the Higgs field as the
Source of Life or the energy for cellular transformation that can
modify the relationships of the 4 forces. Since she believes the Higgs
field have consciousness, then if we can bring in more consciousness
in our hearts, then the combined forces of the vectorial bosons (which
fills the cosmos) and Higgs field can transformed our bodies, mind and
spirit.

The above is generally how I understood it. Others who read it may
have other thoughts so read it too.

The book has more extreme deas and containing almost every concept in
particle physics from nuclear spins to Hamilton's theory. Treat the
book
as a collection of the most far out ways the 4 fundamental force and
Standard Model can be attributed to (I haven't read her second book
Giordano Bruno's Future Science which may explain things in more
details). Now. As an exercise of creativity, if you are to explain the
following using the convensional physics model. How would you do it??

1. How do you create a theory wherein it can explain interconnected of
all the atoms?

2. How do you create a theory wherein consciousness can alter matter?

If you can do it without using any of Conforto's theories. And it can
explain everything. Then it can be equally as good or better
especially if it is closer to reality (which is not what we think it
is owing to the limitation of our senses).

Come on. The Standard Model is particle physics and Big Bang is
derived from a reliance on a mechanistic model of an expanding
universe which may not entirely complete. Consciousness or the
principle of interconnected is not put into the equation. All the many
theories you read coming from everywere is an attempt to bind them
together... from Fred Alan Wolf to Paul Laviolette... since they are
just trying, their theories may be half cooked. It may take a physics
wizards amongst you to create the complete Th eory of Everything... as
only a mathematical wizard with a feeling or heart can do it.

Is Consciousness inside Space/Time or is Space/Time inside
Consciousness? Ponder on it.

c
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-13-2003, 12:38 PM
Bjoern Feuerbacher
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Big Bang With a Feeling

cinquirer wrote:

And who is a crackpot who does understand neither particle physics nor
science in general.



1) Show first that all atoms are interconnected before asking to explain
how this happens.
2) Look up "quantum entanglement".
3) What on earth has this to do with "Big Bang With a Feeling"?



Simple: consciousness is an emergent property of our brain, our brain
consists of matter, hence there is no problem with consciousness
altering matter - because this only means that our brain alters matter.
It uses our body (hands) to do this.



No. She didn't used the Standard Model - she used only her (popular
science) version of it.



The word "nutty" is missing before "ideas".



No, it's only good for students of physics who want to have a good
laugh.



Err, it is involved in keeping the planets and the stars together. Don't
you think this counts as "construction of matter"?



Among other things.



How often do I need to point out to you that the weak force contributes
to the binding of atoms, too? (although the contribution is *very* tiny)
And that therefore there is no reason to single it out?



Wrong. Obviously it doesn't need to explain what holds planets together,
for example. Or the Big Bang. Or light deflection at the sun. And so
on...



Which she doesn't understand, too, I bet.



Vaguely right, for certain values of "one".



What is this supposed to mean?



Using buzz words like "being one" and then using this to jump over many
light years to a ridiculous conclusion.



Totally unwarranted nonsense.




Right.



This "beats it rhythm" was never defined, as far as I can see, and makes
no sense.



Absolutely unwarranted, ridiculous conclusion.



What is this supposed to mean?



What is "they" here? The atoms? If you mean atoms in the body, they
"contact" each other by chemical binding forces. If you mean cells, they
communicate with each other by electrochemical nerve signals.



Total nonsense.



Undefined buzz word, and this has nothing to do with the physical
concept and description of black holes.



Which still remains to be shown.



I don't see how she gets to this conclusion.



Strange choice of words.



No evidence at all for this. And this makes absolutely no sense, judging
from the properties of the weak force.



What's this supposed to mean?



If particles were black and white holes, they couldn't have all the
properties they *do* have. Ever heard of the "black holes have no
hairs"-theorem?



Does she imply that this was somehow a conscious decision of the
particles or what???



What does "physical manifestation of consciousness" mean, and what has
this to do with DNA?



What's this supposed to mean?



Gibberish.



Again, totally unwarranted conclusion which makes no sense in the light
of the physical properties of the Higgs.



Ouch!!!!!

This should show you clearly that she is a total crackpot!!! Why do you
still read the nonsense this woman publishes???



Consciousness isn't in the heart, it's in the brain.



What on earth is this supposed to mean?



No, thank you. I've read enough cranky ideas in my life.



Hamilton's theory has nothing to do with particle physics.



No. I treat it as a collection of nutty ideas.



See above.

And I still don't see what this has to do with the Big Bang!



First demonstrate that the effects you claim to exists do really exist.
I'm still waiting on the properly controlled double-blind studies...



There is a Standard Model of Particle Physics. There are other Standard
Models in other parts of physics.



Nonsense. The Big Bang isn't derived from any mechanistic model.
What's "mechanistic" about expanding space-time?



Right, because there is no reason to do this so far.



Does anyone of these people have an education in the relevant fields?



The first.


Bye,
Bjoern
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-13-2003, 03:08 PM
Uncle Al
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Big Bang With a Feeling

cinquirer wrote:
[snip]

One cannot do that silly dance and simultaneously retain empirical
validity. That is why this class of "theory" is theological and
bullshit. Priests supply promises and threats while confiscating
goods and services. Who is the fool?

--
Uncle Al
[Only registered users see links. ]
[Only registered users see links. ]
(Do something naughty to physics)
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-14-2003, 01:37 AM
cinquirer
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Big Bang With a Feeling

Bjoern Feuerbacher <[Only registered users see links. ].uni-heidelberg.de> wrote in message news:<[Only registered users see links. ].uni-heidelberg.de>...

[Only registered users see links. ]

See the above link. A scientist offers an explanation that states
the brain's own electromagnetic field generated by neurons may
be key to consciousness.

There is another plausible mechanism that are believed by many. And it
is that the Bioetheric Field in the Brain that is the key to
consciousness. By "Bioetheric" is meant that there is an additional
property or extension to matter that doesn't depend on quantum states,
superposition, entanglement, coherence, etc. but involving very subtle
atomic forces that collectively form some kind of information network
or template or blueprint. Let's just call this "Bioetheric" at
present. Now some personal experience. When I have encounter subjects
who can't sleep or have insomnia. Bioetheric thoughtforms can be seen
to be very active in the bioetheric field or matrix of the or head
area or brain. So what I do is acquire the thoughtforms and remove
them. Later the person would be able to sleep so much easier. It
appears silencing the bioetheric counterpart of the brain can activate
some "inhibition" neurotransmitters like GABA that send signals to the
neurons to be less active.

One can also experiment with silencing the brain (both bioetheric
and neurons network) and let a partner think of an object (any
object on the planet). Then when you have silenced your brain
enough, you can get an image of this object. I've actually done
this. I let someone thought of any object on the planet, she wrote it
down in paper. Later image of the object pops up in my mind and I
guess the object correctly with one in a billion probability. This
seems to be the mechanism of telepathy. It can be done only if you are
able to so silent your mind and this is difficult in an ordinary day
when many thoughts circle in our mind. But of course one can also
argue that the neurons electromagnetic field (like the author above
implies) is the seat of consciousness so when you are near a person,
you can acquire his/her thoughts. But does the electromagnetic model
explains it all. Or does the Bioetheric model offers more sense. In
this latter, higher subtle energies can anchor on it so herein lies
the mechanisms of how the soul or extensions (astral body, higher
mind, divine aspect etc.) can be connected to the physical body.. via
the Bioetheric interface. This means our consciousness field is
interactive to matter itself (it can affect matter). So before you
totally reject all the ones you wrote. We must first study the physics
of consciousness. If interconnected is the properties of matter
and the universe. Then our consciousness is interactive with it.


Anyway. Here's the text of the url in case the link doesn't work:

"How Does Human Consciousness Work?
By Jennifer Viegas,
Discovery News

Sep. 11 - A British geneticist has proposed a theory, which is gaining
ground, as to why humans are conscious and aware.

If proven correct, the theory not only would explain one of science's
greatest mysteries, the "hard problem" of awareness, but it may also,
in future, allow for the development of artificially intelligent,
conscious computers.

In a paper published in the latest issue of the Journal of
Consciousness Studies, awareness is said to be generated by the
brain's electromagnetic field, which is a product of the over 100
billion electrically active neurons in the brain.

The activity of individual neurons can result in unconscious actions,
like breathing and eye blinking, but collective, synchronous neuron
firings, according to the report, produce an electromagnetic field and
the state of human awareness.

Johnjoe McFadden, professor of molecular genetics at the University of
Surrey and author of the paper, first came up with the idea while
writing the book "Quantum Evolution," published earlier this year. He
became convinced that "consciousness was some kind of field that bound
our thoughts." But without quantum states in the brain, he wondered
where the field could be.

"An obvious possibility was the brain's own electromagnetic field,
generated by neurons and able to influence neuron firing," McFadden
explained to Discovery News, "so I started to examine the proposition
that the brain's electromagnetic field is consciousness and became
convinced."

He added that human consciousness is awareness that can communicate
complex information with a sense of self-referral. It goes beyond
self-awareness, which, he said, could be the state many animals are
in.

For humans, he believes that information taken in from the outside
world through our senses passes through the brain's electromagnetic
field to neurons in the brain and then back again to the field,
creating a self-referring loop that could be the key to consciousness.
"


c


Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-14-2003, 12:47 PM
Bjoern Feuerbacher
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Big Bang With a Feeling

cinquirer wrote:

In principle, this sounds like an interesting idea. But this pop science
article is written so badly in some places that it makes me wince.



Many scientists or many "seers"?


[snip long sermon I didn't ask for - I've told you time and time again
what I would like to see]



Thanks, it did work.

[snip quoted text]


As usual, you ignored most of what I wrote. I leave it in for
convenience.




Bye,
Bjoern
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-14-2003, 07:06 PM
Gordon D. Pusch
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Big Bang With a Feeling

(gnus-kill "Subject" "Big Bang With a Feeling")

<*!PLNOK!*>
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-15-2003, 12:27 AM
cinquirer
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Big Bang With a Feeling

Bjoern,

In this thread about Conforto's stuff. I didn't reply to each of the
questions because we still don't know the full extension of
consciousness and what forms and interaction it makes with for
example the supersprings. So when you keep on laughing at Conforto's
assertion that the Higgs Boson has consciousness extensions or
interactiveness, etc. It's no point arguing because we have to study
consciousness first and debating about aspects that already presume
consciousness is just a brain stuff is not an objective approach.
Another thing. I'm tired of Corforto's Electroweak Force thing already
having studied it for a month. I'm now getting interested in Gravity
and
finishing this book called The Final Theory wherein the author is
so convinced he has solved the problem of gravity and has arrived
at the Theory of Everything. Some skeptics reviewers who expect to
find flaw get impressed with his work. Let's see about that after
they are thoroughly scrutinized by this newsgroup multidisciplinary
team. Let's see how true (or wrong) it is. This can make me focus
on Gravity the rest of the year. But I'd reply to your inquiries
about Conforton's assertions anyway later today. Read the other
replies first where I made complete answers. I bypassed some because
I got bored having to repeat all the replies that I made in other
groups when they asked the same questions as you did many months
back. But I know it's a normal thing to do to determine whether I
have scientific basis for all of it. Thanks for the questions though.
It makes me think.

c

Bjoern Feuerbacher <[Only registered users see links. ].uni-heidelberg.de> wrote in message news:<[Only registered users see links. ].uni-heidelberg.de>...
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-17-2003, 02:49 PM
Bjoern Feuerbacher
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Big Bang With a Feeling

cinquirer wrote:

Well, we know quite sure that it has to do with the neurons -
electrochemical processes.



I think this is supposed to mean "superstrings", right? Nice typo! ;-)

Nevertheless, we *are* quite sure that consciousness has nothing to do
with superstrings, that ordinary electrodynamics and biochemistry should
be enough to explain it.



If you don't consider this to be ridiculous, then I can't help you.

"One should be open minded, but not so open that one's brain falls out."



Well, every available piece of evidence points to exactly this
explanation.



Congratulations!



And you think gravity may have to do something with Qi? *sigh*



One crackpot among several thousand.



For example?



We'll see.



You could have given me links to this earlier replies.



Good.




[snip rest]

Bye,
Bjoern
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
bang , big , feeling


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is Gravity? sdr@sdrodrian.com Physics Forum 1 01-27-2008 02:53 PM
Vestiges of Big Bang Waves Are Reported SDR Physics Forum 3 01-19-2005 02:12 PM
Vestiges of Big Bang Waves Are Reported SDR Physics Forum 0 01-17-2005 10:23 PM
Vestiges of Big Bang Waves Are Reported SDR Physics Forum 0 01-17-2005 10:21 PM
An Alternative to the Big Bang Theory tbondhus Physics Forum 20 06-23-2004 03:50 PM


All times are GMT. The time now is 09:48 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright 2005 - 2012 Molecular Station | All Rights Reserved
Page generated in 0.23091 seconds with 16 queries