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# Suppose I'm right

## Suppose I'm right - Physics Forum

### Suppose I'm right - Physics Forum. Discuss and ask physics questions, kinematics and other physics problems.

#11
07-24-2003, 06:22 AM
 QDurham Guest Posts: n/a
Suppose I'm right

>The central method for coming up with force laws and field equations is to
extremize the action integral usually defined in terms of a
Langrangian function. For this you need a form of calculus for solving extremal
problems in functionals. This is the so-called calculus of
variations. You can't do physics without it, or something mathematically
equivalent.
C'mon Bob. English. Unless, that is, you are simply trying to impress.

Quent

#12
07-24-2003, 11:04 AM
 Donald G. Shead Guest Posts: n/a
Suppose I'm right

"QDurham" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered users see links. ].com...
to
extremal
It's easier to think that a calculus of variations is necessary to solve
Newton's a = (vt-vi)/t and g; than it is to solve Galileo's g = 2s/tē =
32'/secē !

#13
07-26-2003, 06:08 PM
 Danny Deger Guest Posts: n/a
Suppose I'm right

"Donald G. Shead" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:5kvTa.11960\$[Only registered users see links. ].pro digy.com...
that

Donald, you might be disappointed to learn that the tools you used to build
bridges were developed from calculus. For example if I apply a bending
moment on an "I" beam, you have an equation that will predict the stress and
strain. That equation was developed with calculus.

Danny Deger

#14
07-26-2003, 09:43 PM
 Donald G. Shead Guest Posts: n/a
Suppose I'm right

"Danny Deger" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:bfug4c\$iu8rl\$[Only registered users see links. ].uni-berlin.de...
build
and
Danny m'boy: You might get somebody to believe that line; but I know better:

Even back in the days when I used to joke that "6 munts ago I couldn't even
spell "ingineer", and now I are one" I knew better: That the calculus was a
crock; used by professional engineers only to impress other scientists that
their professional status was [almost] on a par with theirs.

and carried little shirt pocket manuals that contained all the essentials
needed: They had all the _simple beam_ formulas for designing with concrete
and steel; as well as tables and mathematical formulas: They even had
diagrams of finite elements showing how they led to the calculus.

That was learning engineering from the 'grass roots'; with a little help
from the sliderule: I remember the instructions that came with my first
sliderule predicted that learning the proper use of it would be the most
important thing that I'd ever learn: Which it WAS! Limited of course to
three significant figures which is "close enough for bridge work".

all aspects of design could be carried out by anyone with an optimum
knowledge of design and construction; just by filling in essential data.

I was (among) the first to realize that electronic calculators were a boon
to engineering; especially in that they could take the drudgery and tendency
to err out of it: In particular, programmable calculators could iterate
quickly, and store many program steps; which eliminated such errors; to the
n'th degree.

With my TI 59 card programmable calculator I soon had readily available
programs for virtually all of the basic formulas in most of the manuals used
by "Highway Senior Engineers (Bridge Design)"; of my ilk. I could do _some_
things with these, quicker and better than they could.

Since I've retired I've been told that the pound is [legally] a unit of
mass, and of course you know I don't swallow that any better than I do your
claim about formulas being derived with the calculus.

Don't go away mad Dan; I'm not(:-) We'll both survive learning that the
measure of mass is inertia, and the calculus is just a sophisticated way of
plotting the infinitesimal coordinates of infinitesimal ratios; that
represent changing rates; of changes in motion.

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