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question: mercury air pollution from coal fired electric plants

question: mercury air pollution from coal fired electric plants - Chemistry Forum

question: mercury air pollution from coal fired electric plants - Chemistry Forum. Discuss chemical reactions, chemistry.


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  #21  
Old 12-17-2003, 11:23 PM
Repeating Rifle
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Default how does mercury kill Re: question: mercury air pollutionfrom coal fired electric plants

in article [Only registered users see links. ], Mark Tarka at
[Only registered users see links. ] wrote on 12/17/03 7:30 AM:


For gasoline, at least, the mode is kinetic impact of 3000 pound plus
behemoths with each other and with people.

Bill

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  #22  
Old 12-17-2003, 11:44 PM
Mike Painter
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Default how does mercury kill Re: question: mercury air pollutionfrom coal fired electric plants


"Repeating Rifle" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered users see links. ]...

"Exposure to high levels of elemental mercury vapor can result in nervous
system damage including tremors, and mood and personality alterations.
Exposure to relatively high levels of inorganic mercury salts can cause
kidney damage. Adult exposure to relatively high levels of methylmercury
through fish consumption can result in numbness or tingling in the
extremities, sensory losses and loss of coordination. Exposure of the
developing fetus through maternal intake of contaminated fish can result in
neurologic developmental abnormalities in cognitive and motor functions.
Whether any of these symptoms actually occur, and the nature and severity of
the symptoms, depend on the amount of exposure."

It also used to be used as a cure for syphilis. It does cure and was one of
the few things that were effective medicines prior to about 1930.
The problem was that the cure might kill you.


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  #23  
Old 12-18-2003, 01:43 AM
Steve Turner
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Default how does mercury kill Re: question: mercury air pollution from coal fired electric plants

Repeating Rifle <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote:


Bravo. Nicely putting things in perspective. Bill, you'll never make
a good journalist.

Steve Turner

Real address contains worldnet instead of spamnet
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  #24  
Old 12-18-2003, 08:00 PM
Archimedes Plutonium
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Default how does mercury kill Re: question: mercury air pollutionfrom coal fired electric plants

"Mike Painter" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message news:<PT5Eb.209160$[Only registered users see links. ].worldnet.att.net>...

Thanks, I am wondering why mercury and lead take so long whereas a
tiny bit of cyanide kills almost instantly.

How does cyanide kill so fast? Does it kill every cell in its path?

Apparently mercury and lead do not kill every cell in its path but
seem to congregate near a vital organ and renders the organ out of
commission and thus death to the entire body results.

So we have death in two way: the cyanide death of like a chain
reaction killing every cell in its path and the death by congregation
near a vital organ and the slow death.

Perhaps the methylmercury works similar to the cyanide in behaving
like a catalyst that kills every cell in its path and unchanged like a
catalyst to kill more cells in its path.

Perhaps I am just imagining a catalyst cell killer and that none
exists.

Archimedes Plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
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  #25  
Old 12-19-2003, 03:54 PM
Mark Tarka
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Default how does mercury kill Re: question: mercury air pollutionfrom coal fired electric plants

"Mike Painter" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message news:<PT5Eb.209160$[Only registered users see links. ].worldnet.att.net>...
[snip...]

You cite me, without any of my words.

You don't mention Karen Wetterhahn.

Whassup?


Mark
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  #26  
Old 12-19-2003, 08:26 PM
Cary Kittrell
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Default how does mercury kill Re: question: mercury air pollution from coal fired electric plants

In article <[Only registered users see links. ].co.nz> [Only registered users see links. ] (R Molony) writes:
<
<I alway remember a coment made by a packaging expert.
<"If the automobile had been designed by a packaging engineer he would
<have been dismissed for incompetence"
<He then went on to describe the failure of the of the automobile in
<terms of packaging requirements.
<

Um, what does that mean, exactly? That the automobile is not
adequately designed for preventing damage to the contents?


-- cary


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  #27  
Old 12-19-2003, 09:03 PM
R Molony
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Default how does mercury kill Re: question: mercury air pollution from coal fired electric plants

I alway remember a coment made by a packaging expert.
"If the automobile had been designed by a packaging engineer he would
have been dismissed for incompetence"
He then went on to describe the failure of the of the automobile in
terms of packaging requirements.

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  #28  
Old 12-19-2003, 10:09 PM
hanson
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Default how does mercury kill Re: question: mercury air pollutionfrom coal fired electric plants

"Archimedes Plutonium" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:618e71c0.0312181200.2b007742@posting.google.c om...
news:<PT5Eb.209160$[Only registered users see links. ].worldnet.att.net>...

Both, Pb and Hg or most heavy, polyvalent Me do their dirty job
simply by reacting with the sulfur bearing amino acids like Cystein
or Cystin in the proteins.
The 2 R-SH <--> R-SS-R + H2 reaction (RX) is interrupted by the
formation of 2 R-SH + Me2+ --> R-S-Me-S-R + 2H+.
This has two consequences.
a) The energy production redox cycle (RX) is terminated and
b) the structure of R-S-Me-S-R portion which is very different
from R-SS-R in the protein deforms its 3D geometry, thus the
protein molecule can't fit into its necessary location like receptors
any longer, to perform its life sustaining functions.
Given enough of such interferences the bucket will be kicked.


may simply do the kill job by solvation, like softening or liquefying
the fatty glycerides structure (like cleaning grease stains with solvent)
in the lipids in critical sections of the cellwalls, giving rise to lesions.
Once such holes do from, the cells (a bag) begin to leak and then the
sequence of the death avalanche begins, and given enough of such i
nterferences the bucket will be kicked.

hanson

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  #29  
Old 12-20-2003, 03:15 AM
Bob
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Default conjecture that mercury/lead are trace vitamins Re: how does mercury kill

On 16 Dec 2003 00:02:49 -0800, [Only registered users see links. ] (Archimedes
Plutonium) wrote:


That is a standard type of expt. It can even be done with small
animals, eg mice). The idea is to feed them an entirely defined diet
-- for an extended time. A number of trace requirements were found
that way. A modern nutrition book probably gives details.

The difficulty increases for elements of low abundance.


So far as I know, no biological requirement for mercury, lead, bismuth
has been found.


The main barrier to using the heavy elements is not their toxicity but
their rarity. If you look at the elemental abundances (say, in sea
water -- not necessarily the only right choice here, but a reasonable
one), you will see that these heavy elements are at extremely low
levels, on the order of parts per trillion. Iron is at parts per
billion -- and it is hard enough for organisms to get iron.

Note that iodine is relatively abundant in sea water (though I don't
think there is any general bio requirement for it ??).


BTW, a picky but fun point... the old idea that Bi-209 is the heaviest
stable element has been repeated here. That idea was recently
overthrown. Bi-209 is radioactive -- though barely; the half life is
about 10^19 years. See Nature 422:876, 4/24/03.

bob

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  #30  
Old 12-20-2003, 06:35 AM
Archimedes Plutonium
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Default conjecture that mercury/lead are trace vitamins Re: how does mercury kill

Bob ([Only registered users see links. ]) wrote:


That maybe a good plan-of-attack to use Ocean abundance and the
microcosm of the ocean. But I suspect no intelligent lifeform in the
cosmos was created that was confined to the oceans of their planet.
And the main feature of animals that sets them apart from plants is
mobility and motion. So that leads me to ask whether the small amount
of iron in the oceans hampers the ability for ocean animals to pick up
in speed. I suppose some fish small fast but I suppose no fish is able
to sustain fast motion like land animals. Perhaps that is due as a
result of the lower iron content in ocean animals.

But perhaps the lower iron of the oceans hampers plant life in the
oceans more than it hampers animal life. And there is no firm base in
water for plants to grow root systems.



So that leaves me with two alternative ideas. That life on Earth is
based on the Periodic Chart of Elements in a eclectic manner where a
hodge podge of pickiness as to whether an element can be used or
needed with many holes of elements in the table that are not needed
and perhaps harmful. Call this view the hit-and-miss view. Or the idea
that I favor in that all the elements between hydrogen and iodine are
necessary for life on Earth albeit in tiny amounts-- call it a
continuity-of-need. Of course an element like technetium does not
count in this view.

I prefer the Continuity Need because as life began some 4 billion
years ago, I cannot see it as picky and choosy as to avoiding elements
but rather as utilizing those elements. The process of Evolution
(which I do not believe in anyway) is a process that does not avoid
elements of the environment but seeks to make use of the elements.

As far as mercury and lead are concerned, they are so well distributed
and so pervasive in Earth composition that I suspect some creatures
need Mercury and Lead. I read one followup saying that mercury is the
most efficient medicine for syphillis. So I wonder if mercury, perhaps
a poison for most animals is maybe a vitamin or mineral essential to
the Bacteria Kingdom. Perhaps the bacteria species need trace amounts
of lead and mercury

I like the Continuity-Need more than the view of Hit-Miss-Need.

Archimedes Plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
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