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question: mercury air pollution from coal fired electric plants

question: mercury air pollution from coal fired electric plants - Chemistry Forum

question: mercury air pollution from coal fired electric plants - Chemistry Forum. Discuss chemical reactions, chemistry.


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  #11  
Old 12-14-2003, 05:19 PM
Richard
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Default conjecture that mercury/lead are trace vitamins Re: how does mercury kill

Steve Turner <[Only registered users see links. ].net> wrote in message news:<[Only registered users see links. ]>. ..

Want a good perspective on the health benefits of mercury? Do a
search on Google for "Minimata Disease".
Richard
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  #12  
Old 12-14-2003, 06:00 PM
Steve Turner
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Default conjecture that mercury/lead are trace vitamins Re: how does mercury kill

[Only registered users see links. ] (Richard) wrote:


I did not write the quote reproduced above. Please keep attributions
straight.

Steve Turner

Real address contains worldnet instead of spamnet
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  #13  
Old 12-15-2003, 05:38 AM
Mxsmanic
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Default conjecture that mercury/lead are trace vitamins Re: how does mercury kill

Richard writes:


Minimata disease was not a health benefit; it was a disorder caused by
high levels of organic mercury compounds in the environment. A factory
at Minimata, Japan, had been discharging methyl mercury into the bay,
and fish were contaminated with it; when people in the city ate the
fish, they suffered massive mercury poisoning. Children and unborn
babies were the most severely affected by far. It caused quite a
scandal.

An article in Life magazine in 1972 blew the whistle on the Minimata
poisonings world wide, and caused quite an uproar. The photographs
taken by W. Eugene Smith of people (mostly young people) permanently and
horribly disabled by mercury poisoning, notably "Toimoko in Her Bath,"
were instrumental in creating this impact.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
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  #14  
Old 12-15-2003, 06:21 AM
Archimedes Plutonium
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Default conjecture that mercury/lead are trace vitamins Re: how does mercury kill

Steve Turner <[Only registered users see links. ].net> wrote in message news:<[Only registered users see links. ]>. ..

The above is a Conjecture or Speculation. Being a Speculation, then
logical formalities do not apply. I am in search mode, not in some
sort of logic rigor.

I am in search of what part of the animal body would benefit a small
dose of mercury or lead. And the two candidate spots are the brain to
sleep and the intestine liver??

Sequiturs or non-sequiturs are not applicable to searching in a
Speculation.


Steve, I would say you need a logic primer course because in a
Speculation there are no formal logic rules in a search.

There is a logic to Speculation hunting. And it is a *sequitur* to ask
why Bismuth at atomic mass of 209 is beneficial in small amounts, that
all the lesser heavier stable elements such as lead with atomic mass
207 and mercury 200 would also be beneficial at tiny trace amounts.
Given the fact that virtually no animal of the size of a human is free
of mercury or lead in their bodies.

So it makes more sense to ask if every element that is stable below
bismuth is essential for good health albeit in trace amounts. Then to
stick to the old idea that only a hodgepodge list of elements is good
and all the others are poisons.

Corollary to the above Speculation: If it is true that all stable
elements from hydrogen to Bismuth are required for animals, whether in
large amounts or in tiny trace amounts such as mercury or lead. Then
there should be a Complimentary Speculation for plants for plants are
different than animals. Such that at some atomic mass and atomic
number much lower than Bismuth is required for plants but anything
higher is a poison. Such that bismuth is never necessary for plants
nor is mercury or lead. So that would beg the question at what Element
are plants required to have and anything higher is a poison??

Archimedes Plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
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  #15  
Old 12-15-2003, 02:17 PM
Steve Turner
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Default conjecture that mercury/lead are trace vitamins Re: how does mercury kill

[Only registered users see links. ] (Archimedes Plutonium) wrote:


Take a look at what you wrote: "Since bisumuth is beneficial...
suggests that mercury and lead in tiny amounts is probably
important..." This does NOT follow. One does not "suggest" the
other. You might as well say that the dietary requirement for vitamin
C suggests a further requirement for polyethylene.

You say that logic is not needed in Conjecture or Speculation. Fine.
But without knowledge and deductive logic based upon it you're going
to have absolutely no guidance in what you propose. You can speculate
that any and every substance known to man is responsible for any and
every phenomenon observed in nature. The permutations are endless.
This is nothing but mental masturbation. Cantaloupe causes cancer.
Steak causes stuttering. Pork causes polyps. Why not? The first
letters are the same.


You can wonder and speculate if the entire periodic table is required
in some amount, but the fact that some elements are needed does NOT
imply or suggest that all are needed. The requirement for metal ions,
usually results from their presence and critical role in enzyme
systems. They cannot be interchanged. The absolute requirement for
iron as a part of heme says *nothing* about any possible role for
cobalt, nickel, or any other member of the periodic table.


What is magic about bismuth? Why not speculate that the entire
naturally-occurring periodic table is necessary? In the meantime, we
KNOW that if you ingest 5 g of dimethylmercury you're going to die.
That is science: reproducible and predictive.

Steve Turner

Real address contains worldnet instead of spamnet
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  #16  
Old 12-15-2003, 08:21 PM
Archimedes Plutonium
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Default conjecture that mercury/lead are trace vitamins Re: how does mercury kill

Steve Turner <[Only registered users see links. ].net> wrote in message news:<[Only registered users see links. ]>. ..
(snipped)

Seems as though I cannot help you Steve in your ignorance of a
Speculation versus a theory of science. Your criticism would be valid
if I were to claim theory status. I do not. I claim it is a
speculation, perhaps a crude one at that. And that I am in search mode
for supporting evidence. It appears, Steve, that you don't understand
the difference between speculation and theory/law of science.





Not true. In Speculation of Science any means and method is fair game.
Induction
is useful and more so than deduction. Steve, you really need to get a
primer course in the methods of science and in Logic.

(snip)


For over 2 years now I have been searching for the Complimentary
relationship between Plant Kingdom and Animal Kingdom. That plant
excrement is animal food and that animal excrement is plant food. That
plants expel oxygen and breathe nitrogen and vice versa for animals.
These reversals are not coincidence but bespeak of a General Pattern
of Dualism. So that the Kingdoms of biology have dualism much like
Quantum Mechanics has dualisms. And if that is true and correct then
the Periodic Table of Elements has a Pattern of dualism between Plants
and Animals. As far as I know Iodine at #53 and mass 127 is vital for
animals. Is it the last vital element???? As far as I know, Molybdenum
at #42 and mass 96 is vital to plants, but is it the last vital
element for plants????

Plants evolved much earlier than animals and so plants should have
Nitrogen at #7 and mass 14 before animals came into existence
dependent on Oxygen at #8 and mass 16.

Also note that Carbon at #6 and mass 12 precedes Nitrogen and Oxygen
and is such that the one celled creatures that compose the Bacteria
and Virus kingdoms.

The major difference between Plants and Animals is that of mobility.
So that the Plant Kingdom can exist based purely on all the Chemical
Elements from Hydrogen to Molybdenum. But now you want a new kingdom
that is mobile which is the Animal Kingdom. And you cannot do it with
just the elements of Hydrogen to Molybdenum.

You need all the elements from Hydrogen to Iodine to create a animal
kingdom.

But I maybe wrong, in that you need all the elements from Hydrogen to
Bismuth to make the animal kingdom which includes mercury and lead as
vital trace elements.

Obviously some elements are not needed by either plants or animals
such as technetium or Promethium which are so rare in Nature that not
even life can utilize them.

Since Bismuth is so heavy suggests it should not be useful to any life
forms but it is useful to animals. Since mercury and lead are
dangerous but they are present in every animal body (or nearly every)
suggests that in small trace amounts they are beneficial in some
manner. Some manner that we at present are not knowledgeable of.

Archimedes Plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
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  #17  
Old 12-15-2003, 08:40 PM
hanson
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Default conjecture that mercury/lead are trace vitamins Re: how does mercury kill

"Archimedes Plutonium" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:618e71c0.0312151221.547205ba@posting.google.c om...
news:<[Only registered users see links. ]>. ..

No, Archie, the plant "KELP", seaweed, needs, uses and stores so
much "Iodine at #53 and mass 127" that kelp is the main source
for producing Iodine. There is a big time industry off the coast
of San Diego where they grow and farm a sea forest to harvest
Giant Kelp for the production of Iodine.
hanson



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  #18  
Old 12-15-2003, 10:20 PM
Steve Turner
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Default conjecture that mercury/lead are trace vitamins Re: how does mercury kill

[Only registered users see links. ] (Archimedes Plutonium) wrote:


It suggests no such thing. You're a crackpot. Get some real
knowledge.

Steve Turner
Real address contains worldnet instead of spamnet
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  #19  
Old 12-16-2003, 08:02 AM
Archimedes Plutonium
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Default conjecture that mercury/lead are trace vitamins Re: how does mercury kill

[Only registered users see links. ] (Archimedes Plutonium) wrote in message news:<618e71c0.0312151221.547205ba@posting.google. com>...

Someone directed me to an encyclopedia which states that iodine is the
last known element that is vital to both plants and animals. This
maybe true. But I wonder if there can be some sort of scientificly run
experiments that would confirm or support that assertion. How
difficult would it be to have a Biosphere type setup wherein some
animals and plants live and where there are no atoms higher than
iodine present in the environment?? I suppose extremely difficult to
arrange.

But then again I am guessing that in the Biosphere that such elements
of higher atomic number than iodine are screened out to some degree
anyway. So I wonder if the plants grown in the biosphere show any
signs of superiority over plants (or animals) outside the Biosphere.

Archimedes Plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots of the
electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
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  #20  
Old 12-17-2003, 03:30 PM
Mark Tarka
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Default how does mercury kill Re: question: mercury air pollution from coal fired electric plants

[Only registered users see links. ] (Archimedes Plutonium) wrote in message news:<618e71c0.0312130013.2e0ec46e@posting.google. com>...
[snip...]
[snip...]

It's the chronic exposure to (1) and (2) that kills.
(1) supposedly binds with S linkages in DNA/protein/
whatever. (2)?; the same? Why (3) would be a problem
is beyond me, unless you're referring to "leaded" gas,
since "oil and water don't mix", you'd expect swallowing
HCs would be similar to swallowing castor oil...you'd
get the sh*ts. If (3) was a problem (skin or lung
pathways) the industrial hygiene people would be all
over it (also, consider asbestos-type litigation).


Mark (opinion only...real info, cash in advance :-)
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