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question: mercury air pollution from coal fired electric plants

question: mercury air pollution from coal fired electric plants - Chemistry Forum

question: mercury air pollution from coal fired electric plants - Chemistry Forum. Discuss chemical reactions, chemistry.


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  #111  
Old 01-08-2004, 03:28 PM
Bryan Heit
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Default does Canada use Phosmet on their cattle?? Re: BSE in USA todayand priondisease is really caused by metals in the environment

I was going to respond point-by-point, but after reading your post I can
see that it isn't worth my time. You are what real scientists refer to
as a "quack". You hobble together your own little theory from bits and
pieces of real science, throw in a bit of spiritual mumbo-jumbo, and
then try to promote it as a new theory. In your last post here you
complain that no one has taken your "AtomTotality theory seriously
(especially Nature). I've looked at some of your posts to sci-physics,
sci.astro, etc, and I can tell you why. And for any one else reading
this, the following is a pretty good list of ways to determine if
someone is a "quack":

1) They hide behind an alias, and often change aliases/e-mail addresses
to avoid filters. Anonymity is the quacks best defence.

2) Your "theory" is not new. It is based on several older theories
which you have loosely bound together. In order to publish you must
present something new - scientific journals are not intended to re-hash
old ideas.

3) You ignore important components of the theories you parasitize in
order to make yours work.

4) You have not presented any experimental evidence supporting your
"theory". At best you can quote one or two experiments, which when
taken out of context, seems to support your hypothesis. In order for a
scientific journal to even consider publication your theory you MUST
have new data.

5) Correlation does not equal causation. Just because 2 things occur
together does not mean one is responsible for the other. Almost all of
your "theory" is based on correlation.

6) Parts of your "theory" is based on concepts already discarded by
science in exchange for newer theories which fit the data better.

7) You lack a basic understanding of how science works. You claim that
our theories need to be reviewed by a mysterious group of non-scientists
to determine which ones are "right". But any one who knows anything
about science knows that theories are simply models we use to explain
our data. Theories are not written in stone - in fact they change
regularly. In a fast moving field a theory may be revised 2-3 time per
year, and it is not uncommon for two or more competing theories to
exists. As new data emerges theories will change and evolve. Sometimes
new data will completely disprove a theory, and then we have to make a
new one. By their very nature a theory cannot be "right" - but they can
be wrong.

8) Many components of your theory are unstable. For an example see the
quote I use in point #9.

9) You fill you posts with psedo-scientific/pseudo-religous drivel like
the following (actually posted by Archimedes Plutonium in sci.physics,
sci.psychology.thoery and sci.med on 2003-06-15):

"Every thought and imagination and idea that comes to every person
on Earth or elsewhere does not originate through the chemical
interactions
of that brain but originate in the Nucleus of the Atom Totality and
via a
photon or neutrino is shot into that brain much like a radiowave is
shot into
a radio and the sounds and voices emanate forth from the radio.

In an AtomTotality, every thought by every living creature
originates in the
Nucleus of the AtomTotality and is then shot into the brain of a
individual in
order for that individual to behave accordingly."

It's ironic that you call science journals the "Catholic Church" of the
modern world, considering your dogmatic views of everything that touches
your "theory", not to mention that your "theory" sounds more like
religious dogma than science. Which brings me to my last point (and
best "quack" detector):

10) Is completely unwilling to accept the possibility that their theory
may be wrong. Whenever their theory is challenged they claim things
along the lines of:
a) "that data [which challenges their theory] is wrong", of course with
no support that the data itself is wrong.
b) "it's a conspiracy of scientists to keep the truth hidden"
c) this one is straight from the message I'm replying to: "Science
journals are more like politicians whose only driving goal is to "remain
in power"". Similar to point b. Every thing is a conspiracy, we're all
controlled by aliens/government/UN/illuminati/girl guides, etc., etc., etc.
d) an attempt to divert the readers attention from the point raised,
usually by bringing up unrelated points
e) replying to the criticism, but snipping out (usually without marking
the <snip>) anything that they cannot argue against.

I could go on, but I have some real science I have to go do...

Bryan

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  #112  
Old 01-08-2004, 03:37 PM
Bryan Heit
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Default does Canada use Phosmet on their cattle?? Re: BSE in USA todayand priondisease is really caused by metals in the environment

Nice post, you are much more eloquent that I. Just out of curiosity are
you in Todd Smith's lab? I think I met you (or some one from you lab)
at Experimental Biology 2003 last April.

Bryan Heit (Dr. Paul Kubes lab, University of Calgary)

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  #113  
Old 01-08-2004, 05:08 PM
amanda
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Default metal-ions cause modern diseases of Alzheimers, Parkinson, Prion Re: does Canada use Phosmet on their cattle??

<snip>

As I started reading, I remembered about reading ALuminun's effect (I
couldn't remember on what, i.e Alzeimer or ?/) and then you brought it
up.

Was there any other brain diseases that have been blamed on Aluminun
pot? Anyone?
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  #114  
Old 01-08-2004, 08:40 PM
Ian Gilmore
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Default metal-ions cause modern diseases of Alzheimers, Parkinson, Prion Re: does Canada use Phosmet on their cattle??

"DP" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message news:<bthqv0$j37$[Only registered users see links. ]>...

I'm not up to date on aluminium's role in Alzheimers but it was not
use of aluminium per se but how you used it! If you used the utensils
for preparing acidic foods e.g. rhubarb and citrus fruit jams-even
optics in pubs which served lime juice were blamed.
Ian
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  #115  
Old 01-08-2004, 09:51 PM
Mark Petten
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Default does Canada use Phosmet on their cattle?? Re: BSE in USA today and priondisease is really caused by metals in the environment


"Archimedes Plutonium" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:618e71c0.0401072338.5d38d456@posting.google.c om...
I by
Actually I do give an iota, hence my the question, and I apologize if my
question came off as impolite.

graduate
press,
other
an
research

I fail to see how science journals are arcane. The information they present
is meant to be understood by the scientists reading it. I can pick up a
journal of pure mathematics and I would by no means understand it. I would
not judge it to be arcane. I merely lack the knowledge to understand it.

little or
disciplines.
peers,
am

You are dealing in what ifs. If the model is "fake", how do you judge it to
be so? The data available supported the model. This does not make a model
false. What makes a model false is the discovery of new evidence to the
contrary and even then the model may not be false but instead be in need of
revision. Research into prion disease, as is my understanding has been
hampered by long incubation periods chiefly, not by a supposed conspiracy of
scientists and journals to maintain an existing model.

work.

I again have to disagree with you. Of course, journals are "clubhousish" (
to use your term). That is beacuse they represent scientists in a particular
field. I would not publish in a math journal and if I did submit a paper for
publication in one I would no doubt be ridiculed and justly so. I have t ask
you you would have to independently review journals for mistakes? Only those
who are knowledgable in a field are suited to review papers from that field.
I would not be able to competently review a math journal for mistakes. It is
not my field and I lack the knowledge to do so. The internet will not
replace or force the extinction of peer-reviewed journals. Papers are
rejected not because they go against existing theories. They are rejected
because of poor science, incomplete work, and various other reasons. There
is no conspiracy.

you
people
this
post
flaws
journals

--
Mark Petten
MSc Student
Acadia University
Department of Biology

"Research is the process of going up alleys to see if they're blind"
-Bates' Law of Research


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  #116  
Old 01-08-2004, 09:53 PM
Mark Petten
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Default does Canada use Phosmet on their cattle?? Re: BSE in USA today and priondisease is really caused by metals in the environment

Thank you, Bryan. No I'm not in Todd's lab but I do enjoy a drink with him
now and then. I don't believe we've met. Last year I was working for
Agriculture Canada last year in new Brunswick.

"Bryan Heit" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:btjt90$f1a$[Only registered users see links. ]...


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  #117  
Old 01-09-2004, 02:44 AM
Bob
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Default does Canada use Phosmet on their cattle?? Re: BSE in USA today and priondisease is really caused by metals in the environment

On Tue, 6 Jan 2004 13:47:03 +0100, "DP" <[Only registered users see links. ]>
wrote:


Data: Incubation period for iatrogenic CJD (where the agent was
introduced by some medical intervention) 18 months to 30 years. But
this is given without any mention (and probably without any knowledge)
of the dose. Incubation period for kuru is given as 4-40 years.

The source gives no info for vCJD in humans.

It is not meaningful to talk of incubation period for CJD itself,
since we have no idea what "infection" is. Incubation time for a
disease is the time from when you are infected until you get sick. We
do not know how to relate that to a "spontaneous" disease.





Well, let's leave those points open until we find some data. We
certainly know that ordinary CJD is a disease of the very old, and
that vCJD does not follow that pattern. But at least so far, it may be
sufficient to explain that simply because vCJD is an infection -- and
people eat beef at all ages.



Don't understand?




Let's be careful we don't turn this into a semantic issue. But the
diseases CJD and vCJD are due to distinct prion forms, and also tend
to be clinically distinct. A key test is to infect, say, mice with the
agents of CJD and vCJD; I suspect this has been done, and the results
are distinct. (But I can't quote anything here, so take it as an idea
for now.)

bob


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  #118  
Old 01-09-2004, 02:44 AM
Bob
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Default metal-ions cause modern diseases of Alzheimers, Parkinson, Prion Re: does Canada use Phosmet on their cattle??

On 7 Jan 2004 11:43:43 -0800, [Only registered users see links. ] (Archimedes
Plutonium) wrote:



1. Not so
2. If so, so what?

To say that yeast prions do or do not cause disease could get to be a
semantic argument. The original discovery of prions in yeast was
focused on an unusual phenotype of yeast, one that could easily be
called a disease.

But more importantly, so what? Disease is simply an effect. The
question is, effect of what? What the yeast prion story does for us is
to establish an existence theorem of sorts. All parts of the basic
prion model can be shown to work.

The yeast work has the advantage of being experimentally accessible.
Much of our understanding of molecular biology started with simple
microbial systems. As we go into more complex organisms, we tend to
find that what we learned from microbes still holds, and there are
additional complexities. That is sort of where we are with prions.
Yeast tells us that the simple prion story works fine. Now, what
happens in mammals? That is harder to deal with, and undoubtedly more
complex. Factor X? Hsp 104? Or ??


The prion story is no more dependent on "disease" than is the story of
viruses or of bacteria. We may have some interest in them because of
cases where they cause disease, but it is not fundamental that any of
these cause disease. We understand that most bacteria do not cause
disease. Perhaps that is true also for viruses. Who knows whether it
is true for prions.



???



probably so, at least for a period in late 90s. So?





We await any evidence.

As I said, I am quite open to external agents playing a role -- if
there is evidence. The model does not require such agents, but does
not exclude them.

bob



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  #119  
Old 01-09-2004, 02:44 AM
Bob
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Default does Canada use Phosmet on their cattle?? Re: BSE in USA today and priondisease is really caused by metals in the environment

On 7 Jan 2004 23:38:21 -0800, [Only registered users see links. ] (Archimedes
Plutonium) wrote:


Huh? Each time a transmissible prion disease has become evident, the
transmission cycle has been broken. (Kuru, BSE, other CJD transfer
such as on instruments).

I donít know how you could expect much more. In the absence of
transmission, these are extremely rare diseases. Until BSE/vCJD they
did not even receive much attention, as not being very important. And
the infectious agent wasn't even identified until in the 80s.

bob


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  #120  
Old 01-09-2004, 07:30 AM
Archimedes Plutonium
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Default metal-ions cause modern diseases of Alzheimers, Parkinson, Prion Re: does Canada use Phosmet on their cattle??

"DP" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message news:<bthqv0$j37$[Only registered users see links. ]>...

this sounds like my writing; A.P. wrote this--

Some people get sick very quickly if they eat from a aluminum pot,
especially cooking rhubarb and the acid of rhubarb seems to bond with
aluminum. I have heard of people near death after eating rhubarb from
a aluminum cookery.

Aluminum is a widespread metal in modern environment that was not
there previous to the 20th century.

It is speculation, BRDP, speculation only that Alzheimers, Parkinson,
Prion existed before the 20th century only that lifespans were too
short to count the cases. That is speculation. I suspect that
Alzheimers, Parkinson and Prion just never existed before in Nature
until the 20th century. (caveat-- sheep scrapie maybe an exception but
the early reported cases are suspect). I base that opinion on the fact
that many people in ancient times lived a long life. Archimedes of
Syracuse lived to 75 years of age (repudedly). If Alzheimers had
existed throughout history, then someone such as a family who were of
royalty (such as the bleeders disease was documented), that royality
in ancient times allowed for longevity and documentation of those
people. Yet we find no case of Alzheimers until the 20th century. So I
believe this claim that people living longer is bringing out
Alzheimers is not true. Another datum that refutes the claim is that
vCJD attacks the very young and are we thence to say that vCJD existed
throughout history and that only by 1990s are we beginning to notice
it?

To me the evidence of Logic points more to the mechanism that these
brain diseases are the body accumulation of modern chemicals that make
the brain go heywire.

Archimedes Plutonium
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies
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