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Thesis on MacDougall Space and the Astral Form.
The Good News According to John 14,2
In my Fathers house are many mansions.
Duncan MacDougall MD in 1907 wrote "If personal continuity after the
event of bodily death is a fact , if the psychic functions continue
to exist as a separate individual or personality after the death of brain
and body, then such personality can only exist as a space occupying
body, unless the relations between space objective and space notions in
our consciousness, established in our consciousness by heredity and
experience, are entirely wiped out at death and a new set of relations
between space and consciousness suddenly established in the continuing
personality. This would be an unimaginable breach in the continuity of
It is unthinkable that personality and consciousness continuing personal
identity should exist, and have being, and yet not occupy space. It is
impossible to represent in thought that which is not space-occupying, as
having personality; for that would be equivalent to thinking that nothing
had become or was something, that emptiness had personality, that space
itself was more than space, all of which are contradictions and absurd."
We begin with MacDougall rationalizing space as if analogous with
n-dimensional form and "nothing" as that which is "not space-occupying".
In MacDougalls black and white universe all that is created exists within
the manifold of space. Nothing may come from nothingness, not even
quantum mechanical virtual particles. All that has form has origins in
form . With his black and white rationale he goes on to add "Since
therefore it is necessary to the continuance of conscious life and
personal identity after death, that they must have for a basis that which
is space-occupying, or substance, the question arises has this substance
weight, is it ponderable?"
Well it is certainly ponderable in terms of MacDougall space form.
Whether it has weight (mass) and other properties will depend exactly
on how this "personality" (or Astral) form "hooks" onto MacDougall space
form. Properties such as weight and force are the result of form
interacting with form by means of hooks built into the form.
All of physics and chemistry describes the world in this way ultimately.
As it turns out the Astral form may indeed have hooks into "our world"
that give it mass and weight thus bringing us some small way towards
a determination in regard of supposition .
End of part 1.
Thesis on MacDougall Space and the Astral Form.
The Good News According to Mark 13,10
The Good News must first be preached to all the nations. When they
lead you away and deliver you up, don't be anxious beforehand, or
premeditate what you will say, but say whatever will be given you
in that hour. For it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.
"The essential thing is that there must be a substance as the
basis of continuing personal identity and consciousness, for
without space-occupying substance, personality or a continuing
conscious ego after bodily death is unthinkable."
In MacDougall Space, itself a form or hyper-form if you like no
thing ever comes from nothing but all things are built from forms.
In MacDougalls original 1907 thesis form from nothing as per QM
is precluded by supposition . That is not to say that all of
QM is erroneous but just that MacDougall Space is totally embracing,
it is the super-space-form of all space-form, a hyper form.
So-called space-time (a super-form) and false vacuum yet another
example of a super-form are "inferior" to the hyper-form. In this
rationale it is clear that the MacDougal Space form must have
pre-existed in order for any BB to manifest. Incidently space-time
is not actually a single super-form per se. It is a result of two
super-forms, space and time. The time super-form unlike any other
form is "constructed" entirely of specialized time-form linking hooks
only. Space-forms and matter-forms may have time-form linking hooks
in addition to whatever other hooks they have.
Consider if the time-form was exclusively a part of the space-form as
in the erroneously hypothesised "space-time" then how could other
forms exclusively lock with the time super-form? Quantum entanglement
could not happen without an independant time super-form. The
Copenhagen interpretation could not be possible without an
independant time super-form. You get the picture.
"According to the latest conception of science, substance, or
space-occupying material, is divisible into that which is
gravitative, solids, liquids, gases, all having weight, and the
ether which is nongravitative. It seemed impossible to me that
the soul substance could consist of the ether. If the conception
is true that ether is continuous and not to be conceived of as
existing or capable of existing in separate masses, we have here
the most solid ground for believing that the soul substance we
are seeking is not ether, because one of the very first
attributes of personal identity is the quality of separateness."
So, MacDougall stuck inside 19th Century physics considers the
aether (a super-form) and concludes that the soul or Astral form
being discrete cannot be of the all pervading superform aether
variety. Very astute of him. So much for the "super-conscious"
or communal all pervading variety of "godliness" favoured by
hippies and some eastern dogmas.
"Nothing is more borne in upon consciousness, than that the ego is
detached and separate from all things else - the nonego.
We are therefore driven back upon the assumption that the soul
substance so necessary to the conception of continuing personal
identity, after the death of this material body, must still be a
form of gravitative matter, or perhaps a middle form of substance
neither gravitative matter or ether, not capable of being
weighed, and yet not identical with ether."
Ok so MacDougall admits he doesn't know exactly what type of
"matter" his "continuing personal identity" the Astral Form takes.
As previously described in part 1 this is purely a function of
hooks that a form presents to other forms. Consider three different
forms A,B and C. Forms A and B may interelate with each other in
a way that is different to that which A and C may relate.
Take magnetic and non-magnetic materials as a simple illustration
of how forms may provide different hooks. Whether one form detects
another form is entirely a function of what hooks they have or
"share" between them.
"Since however the substance considered in our hypothesis is linked
organically with the body until death takes place, it appears to me
more reasonable to think that it must be some form of gravitative
matter, and therefore capable of being detected at death by weighing
a human being in the act of death."
Organic human forms are well endowed with "mass" hooks and it is
no surprise that MacDougall should have looked there first in his
attempts to locate the human soul, the Astral Form.
In the next part I shall describe MacDougalls experiments where he
determines the weight (in Earths gravity) of the Astral Form.
End of part 2
Thesis on MacDougall Space and the Astral Form
The Good News According to Mark 4,4
He said to them, Take heed what you hear. With whatever measure you
measure, it will be measured to you, and more will be given to you
who hear. For whoever has, to him will more be given, and he who
doesn't have, from him will be taken away even that which he has.
Experiments conducted by Duncan MacDougall in 1907 in order
to determine the weight of a human soul (Astral Form).
"My first subject was a man dying of tuberculosis. It seemed to
me best to select a patient dying with a disease that produces
great exhaustion, the death occurring with little or no muscular
movement, because in such a case the beam could be kept more
perfectly at balance and any loss occurring readily noted.
The patient was under observation for three hours and forty
minutes before death, lying on a bed arranged on a light
framework built upon very delicately balanced platform beam
The patient's comfort was looked after in every way, although
he was practically moribund when placed upon the bed. He lost
weight slowly at the rate of one ounce per hour due to
evaporation of moisture in respiration and evaporation of sweat.
During all three hours and forty minutes I kept the beam end
slightly above balance near the upper limiting bar in order to
make the test more decisive if it should come.
At the end of three hours and forty minutes he expired and
suddenly coincident with death the beam end dropped with an
audible stroke hitting against the lower limiting bar and
remaining there with no rebound. The loss was ascertained to be
three-fourths of an ounce."
"My second patient was a man moribund from tuberculosis. He was
on the bed about four hours and fifteen minutes under observation
before death. The first four hours he lost weight at the rate of
three-fourths of an ounce per hour. He had much slower
respiration than the first case, which accounted for the
difference in loss of weight from evaporation of perspiration and
The last fifteen minutes he had ceased to breathe but his
facial muscles still moved convulsively, and then, coinciding
with the last movement of the facial muscles, the beam dropped.
The weight lost was found to be half an ounce. Then my colleague
auscultated the heart and and found it stopped. I tried again and
the loss was one ounce and a half and fifty grains. In the
eighteen minutes that lapsed between the time he ceased breathing
until we were certain of death, there was a weight loss of one
and a half ounces and fifty grains compared with a loss of three
ounces during a period of four hours, during which time the
ordinary channels of loss were at work. No bowel movement took
place. The bladder moved but the urine remained upon the bed and
could not have evaporated enough through the thick bed clothing
to have influenced the result.
The beam at the end of eighteen minutes of doubt was placed
again with the end in slight contact with the upper bar and
watched for forty minutes but no further loss took place.
My scales were sensitive to two-tenths of an ounce. If placed
at balance one-tenth of an ounce would lift the beam up close to
the upper limiting bar, another one-tenth ounce would bring it up
and keep it in direct contact, then if the two-tenths were
removed the beam would drop to the lower bar and then slowly
oscillate till balance was reached again.
This patient was of a totally different temperament from the
first, his death was very gradual, so that we had great doubts
from the ordinary evidence to say just what moment he died.
My third case, a man dying of tuberculosis, showed a weight of
half and ounce lost, coincident with death, and an additional
loss of one ounce a few minutes later.
In the fourth case, a woman dying of diabetic coma,
unfortunately our scales were not finely adjusted and there was a
good deal of interference by people opposed to our work, and
although at death the beam sunk so that it required from
three-eighths to one-half ounce to bring it back to the point
preceding death, yet I regard this test as of no value.
My fifth case, a man dying of tuberculosis, showed a distinct
drop in the beam requiring about three-eighths of an ounce which
could not be accounted for. This occurred exactly simultaneously
with death but peculiarly on bringing the beam up again with
weights and later removing them, the beam did not sink back to
stay for fully fifteen minutes. It was impossible to account for
the three-eighths of an ounce drop, it was so sudden and
distinct, the beam hitting the lower bar with as great a noise as
in the first case. Our scales in the case were very sensitively balanced.
My sixth and last case was not a fair test. The patient died
almost within five minutes after being placed upon the bed and
died while I was adjusting the beam.
In my communication to Dr. Hodgson I note that I have said
there was no loss of weight. It should have been added that there
was no loss of weight that we were justified in recording.
My notes taken at the time of experiment show a loss of one
and one-half ounces but in addition it should have been said the
experiment was so hurried, jarring of the scales had not wholly
ceased and the apparent weight loss, one and one-half ounces,
might have been due to accidental shifting of the sliding weight
on that beam. This could not have been true of the other tests;
no one of them was done hurriedly.
My sixth case I regard as one of no value from this cause. The
same experiments were carried out on fifteen dogs, surrounded by
every precaution to obtain accuracy and the results were
uniformly negative, no loss of weight at death.
A loss of weight takes places about 20 to 30 minutes after
death which is due to the evaporation of the urine normally
passed, and which is duplicated by evaporation of the same amount
of water on the scales, every other condition being the same,
e.g., temperature of the room, except the presence of the dog's
The dogs experimented on weighed between 15 and 70 pounds and
the scales with the total weight upon them were sensitive to
one-sixteenth of an ounce. The tests on dogs were vitiated by the
use of two drugs administered to secure the necessary quiet and
freedom from struggle so necessary to keep the beam at balance.
The ideal tests on dogs would be obtained in those dying from
some disease that rendered them much exhausted and incapable of
struggle. It was not my fortune to get dogs dying from such
Ok, I think we can all agree that it was wrong of MacDougall
to waste 15 healthy dogs in his experiments and I strongly suspect
that it was also a waste from the scientific standpoint as well.
Also, I suspect that any Astral Form associated with the dogs
(if any) may have taken flight at the first sign of MacDougalls
"The net result of the experiments conducted on human beings,
is that a loss of substance occurs at death not accounted for by
known channels of loss. Is it the soul substance? It would seem
to me to be so. According to our hypothesis such a substance is
necessary to the assumption of continuing or persisting
personality after bodily death, and here we have experimental
demonstration that a substance capable of being weighed does
leave the human body at death.
If this substance is a counterpart to the physical body, has
the same bulk, occupies the same dimensions in space, then it is
a very much lighter substance than the atmosphere surrounding our
earth which weighs about one and one-fourth ounces per cubic
foot. This would be a fact of great significance, as such a body
would readily ascend in our atmosphere. The absence of a
weighable mass leaving the body at death would of course be no
argument against continuing personality, for a space-occupying
body or substance might exist not capable of being weighed, such
as the ether."
Ok, MacDougall has hypothesised as far as he reasonably can given
1907 physics. Today similar experiments could nail this thing
right down. Dozens of form-hook parameters may be monitored in
naturally expiring subjects in order to define some if not all of
the specific form attributes that are associated with the Astral
Form. MacDougall demonstrated that the Astral Form may have matter
hooks in its form but it's a given that it will hook up with other
forms and quite possibly directly with the MacDougall Space
hyper-form thus allowing the Astral Form (body) to short circuit
space and time, to seemingly transgress physics.
Incidently MacDougall has attributed one Rudolph Wagner to
coining the term "soul substance".
"In the year 1854 Rudolph Wagner, the physiologist, at the Gottingen
Congress of Physiologists, proposed a discussion of a "Special Soul
Substance." The challenge was accepted, but no discussion followed
and among the 500 voices present not one was raised in defense of a
spiritualistic philosophy. Have we found Wagner's soul substance?"
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