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Thesis on MacDougall Space and the Astral Form part 2

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Old 11-09-2003, 06:29 PM
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Default Thesis on MacDougall Space and the Astral Form part 2

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Thesis on MacDougall Space and the Astral Form.

Part 2

The Good News According to Mark 13,10

The Good News must first be preached to all the nations. When they
lead you away and deliver you up, don't be anxious beforehand, or
premeditate what you will say, but say whatever will be given you
in that hour. For it is not you who speak, but the Holy Spirit.

MacDougall writes;
"The essential thing is that there must be a substance as the
basis of continuing personal identity and consciousness, for
without space-occupying substance, personality or a continuing
conscious ego after bodily death is unthinkable."
In MacDougall Space, itself a form or hyper-form if you like no
thing ever comes from nothing but all things are built from forms.
In MacDougalls original 1907 thesis form from nothing as per QM
is precluded by supposition [2]. That is not to say that all of
QM is erroneous but just that MacDougall Space is totally embracing,
it is the super-space-form of all space-form, a hyper form.
So-called space-time (a super-form) and false vacuum yet another
example of a super-form are "inferior" to the hyper-form. In this
rationale it is clear that the MacDougal Space form must have
pre-existed in order for any BB to manifest. Incidently space-time
is not actually a single super-form per se. It is a result of two
super-forms, space and time. The time super-form unlike any other
form is "constructed" entirely of specialized time-form linking hooks
only. Space-forms and matter-forms may have time-form linking hooks
in addition to whatever other hooks they have.
Consider if the time-form was exclusively a part of the space-form as
in the erroneously hypothesised "space-time" then how could other
forms exclusively lock with the time super-form? Quantum entanglement
could not happen without an independant time super-form. The
Copenhagen interpretation could not be possible without an
independant time super-form. You get the picture.

"According to the latest conception of science, substance, or
space-occupying material, is divisible into that which is
gravitative, solids, liquids, gases, all having weight, and the
ether which is nongravitative. It seemed impossible to me that
the soul substance could consist of the ether. If the conception
is true that ether is continuous and not to be conceived of as
existing or capable of existing in separate masses, we have here
the most solid ground for believing that the soul substance we
are seeking is not ether, because one of the very first
attributes of personal identity is the quality of separateness."
So, MacDougall stuck inside 19th Century physics considers the
aether (a super-form) and concludes that the soul or Astral form
being discrete cannot be of the all pervading superform aether
variety. Very astute of him. So much for the "super-conscious"
or communal all pervading variety of "godliness" favoured by
hippies and some eastern dogmas.

"Nothing is more borne in upon consciousness, than that the ego is
detached and separate from all things else - the nonego.
We are therefore driven back upon the assumption that the soul
substance so necessary to the conception of continuing personal
identity, after the death of this material body, must still be a
form of gravitative matter, or perhaps a middle form of substance
neither gravitative matter or ether, not capable of being
weighed, and yet not identical with ether."
Ok so MacDougall admits he doesn't know exactly what type of
"matter" his "continuing personal identity" the Astral Form takes.
As previously described in part 1 this is purely a function of
hooks that a form presents to other forms. Consider three different
forms A,B and C. Forms A and B may interelate with each other in
a way that is different to that which A and C may relate.
Take magnetic and non-magnetic materials as a simple illustration
of how forms may provide different hooks. Whether one form detects
another form is entirely a function of what hooks they have or
"share" between them.

"Since however the substance considered in our hypothesis is linked
organically with the body until death takes place, it appears to me
more reasonable to think that it must be some form of gravitative
matter, and therefore capable of being detected at death by weighing
a human being in the act of death."
Organic human forms are well endowed with "mass" hooks and it is
no surprise that MacDougall should have looked there first in his
attempts to locate the human soul, the Astral Form.
In the next part I shall describe MacDougalls experiments where he
determines the weight (in Earths gravity) of the Astral Form.

End of part 2


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Old 11-11-2003, 04:55 AM
Rick Sobie
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Default Thesis on MacDougall Space and the Astral Form part 2

In article <[Only registered users see links. ]>, [Only registered users see links. ]stik says...

This is lovely, but it is no where near reality.

Reality, is such that in order for an individual thinking
person, to be an indiviudal, in a universe that all connected,
it is necessary for indiviudals to be deprived of some
information. That is to say, that unless a person is isolated,
and his consciousness isolated into an individual, he or she
cannot be separate from lets say, Gaia. The planet itself.

As the earth from a distance, would look like a funny looking
creature with skin, and we are part of that skin.

We assume the planet itself, has no collective consciousness.

Why is that? We have never met her.

Yet some of us actually have.

Further as well, the universe as a whole, is nothing more than
a series of laws. Look at the machinery itself. Waves in some
substance we cannot detect.
People are programmed to believe in particles.

here is a partcle according to the definition of physics.

xyzt (I am not making this up)

A point particle, is a mathmatical construct. Never has
any solid amterial ever been found. Material we like to believe
is solid, because it can deflect other waves shot at it
at very high energies, but not solid as in little pieces
of rock.

Sure we posit that at the center of black holes there may be a
singulariy. An acyual solid something. But we do not know
it is only a theory, and it may just a well not be solid
So what we have, are waves. Not slow rollers on the ocean.
High speed high energy waves. We can call them particles,
if we freeze the frame of reference.

That is to say, that xyzt is not moving. It is a particle.

In reality, nothing ever stops moving and the waves keep
rolling along.

Current theory dictates that the universe began with the big bang.

That is what cause the waves and these tiny eddies we call atoms
are a product from the original explosion, or also from
other subsequent explosions such as super novae.

A tiny little contained eddy. That is an atom. With the
force of the big bang or other gigantic explosion
still feeding it. The element itself, locked into a frequency.

Each element, locked into a SPECIFIC frequency.

Each element being divisible, by the frequency of Hydrogen.

There are no elements that are not in this scale, in our
known universe.

What makes things individual such as why copper is not
a copper/brass/cheese/half-hydrogen blend is because copper
atoms have a distinct frequency.

There are no half atoms.

It is as if, the entire universe is like a TV. A three dimensional
TV. A holodeck. We believe that the universe began with the big
bang because of the red shift of galaxies. Hubble et al.

That is the sole basis for this belief.

The red shift may be caused by something else entirely,
in which case the big bang theory would be false.

But just as people like to imagine that God with his sense
of humour blinks dinosaur bones into the earth for fun,
we have no way of proving he does not.

In fact, the universe itself, in many doctrines, is a conscious

Reality, is his doing. We exist in the consciousness of God.

We are a smaller consciousness, which has senses to give us
the feeling of reality. Hardness softness wetness etc,
following the laws of physics, and subject not only to
those physical laws, but also subject to other rules
and laws and themes and paths, and time lines, which
together make up a life as we know it.

When we sleep, and when we are not aware, not consciously
aware, for all intents and purposes, we do not exist.

Yet, we believe that when we wake, life will be as it
was when we fell asleep. That the universe will continue
to act predictably, according to laws.

Look at DNA. It is programming.

Look at plant growth. Fractal algorythms.
Clouds - same. As seen by anyone who has used or seen a high
quality flight simulator.

Here is an example if you haven't...

[Only registered users see links. ]

This is in two dimensions.

In three dimensions, immersed into the waves themselves,
and as part of the very substance of that projection,
you would have reality as we know it.

Does that make it any less real or any less painful
or any less pleasurable? No, not at all. That is just
what life is.

But when we dream, we are free.

Below you are quoting Mark. Brother (I am assuming you
are a brother not a sista please try to keep up
so that we are all on the same page. We are at
Revelations 21:21

where 21 and 21 = 42

Where there are 12 gates, and each gate as one pearl, and each
time they go through one on Stargate SG1 it makes me wonder
why they don't just come out and tell us what they know,
instead of speaking in rhymes and riddles and making
us watch all those commercials.

The pearly gates.

As someone said recently, there is light at the end of the
tunnel, and a gate to a place, that may just be the heaven
we have always searched for.

Wouldn't it be nice, to go home now.

But as far as the theory below, It is common for people to
look at the work of others in their time. Like Einstein
looked at Maxwell, and etc back to a botanist named
Browning who observed in a microscope, (a rather new invention
at the time), little things seemed to be shooting little things
at each other, causing the little things to move about.

From there, n-dimensional space was realized. Although it
took a further 50 or so years to get into theory as
SR and GR.

As far as your comment below about hippies and godliness, the
universe we live in, is a person. And he has a name.

It is not Zeus, the King of Gods. It is the Lord King High God
of the Universe. He is and does everything.

He said so himself. And after he spun the moon for me,
I believed him.

We have a saying. We the people of *is*

And that is, "Don't be surprised, if one day, your thing
doesn't work, and it was him, doing it all along."


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Old 11-11-2003, 05:40 AM
Rick Sobie
Posts: n/a
Default Thesis on MacDougall Space and the Astral Form part 2

But of course the crucial issue, is not so much
consciousness, as we are convinced, that lives on as spirit.

Some aren't. Simply because they have not experienced it,
and it is understandable completely to not believe until you have
experienced it for yourself.

Only by experience can anyone become convinced.

But what is the imortant part, is not what happens to your
consciousness but rather what happens to your memories.

You may live on, even your personality, may live on, but what
about the relationships you had in the past?

Are they not as important to who you are as your consciousness?

I would say that only a selfish person, would care about
his own continued existence. But to continue to be able to
know, and communicate with, and interact with, those you
love, that is the important thing.

When you die, if you are no longer conscious, then you won't
be aware of it.

If you live again, reincarnate but remember nothing, then you
might as well not be reicarnated but rather make new people
every time.

So we look at people with Alzheimers, and we say, they are sick,
their brains are deteriorating and they do not remember.

Does that mean that memories are stored in the brain?

It leads us to believe that is the case, but there are other
possible explanations.

We prefer to believe that the memories are not stored in
the human brain, but are stored elsewhere.

Only in that way, could a person retain any memory of the past.

Many people claim to know who they were in past lives.

The Dali Lamas for instance.

They must choose their belongings out of a large pile
of stuff before they can be authenticated as a child.

There is also plenty of scientific evidence for reincarnation.
Icluding scars passed on from one life to the next,
combined with distinct verifiable memories of past lives.

My life, isn't like the lives of others, so my testimonials
woouldn't really do anyone any good. You will never come
to truly believe anything, unless you convince yourself
after having experiences.

But I will tell you that I do know angels, and Gods and
other people I have known from long before I was born.

It is not even unusual for us.

But if ordinary people knew they lived on, they might
off themselves at the first sign of hardship, or off
themselves to get to paradise, if they were convinced
that was where they were headed.

But the memory issue. That is the big issue from a scientific

As a believer, I can put my trust in God, and expect that
my memories will be preserved as well as my relationships.

Not all. Only the relationships, that I have with my own kind.

Not everyone on this earth, is of the same type of person.

People are here in groups.

To find yourself in someone elses group would not be pleasant.
You would be like a fish out of water.

Each to their own kind. Is the rule.

Birds of a feather, flock together, and all that. :-)

An example being the difference being between a true love
relationship, and an arranged marriage.

What is it, that makes a true love relationship?

It is the harmony of like with like. By design.

It is not restricted to a soul mate. It is possible within
your own kind, and not restricted to one indiviudal.

There is a certain something gained, by a person who
wants just one special soul mate and just the two of them
to be a couple and to love each other only.

Just as when a person feels jealousy, that is also
a form of flattery for the mate. It means they love them
and want them for their very own.
But it can also mean they want to own them.

There is no reson why, that true love relationship, cannot
be extended beyond one person, to a small group. And
from there in varying degrees to a larger group.

That is when you really feel like you are amongst friends.

That is when you really feel like you belong.

Without love relationships, life would just be work.
It would be mechanical, and without purpose.

Sadly some people probably go through life like that.

Just as some people go through life, never once experiencing
anything strange bizarre or unusual.

Never once coming into contact with an angel, or a God.

Never once getting a glimpse of another world.

Never once so much as seeing the world as anything but
pure nuts and bolts.

Only a very small part of existence, is in the nuts and

When the scales drop off your eyes, or when you find yourself
like Archimedes running naked down the street shouting
Eureka!, or when cry and laugh and cry and laugh at the same time,
or when you actually experience the reality of the spirit,
and the veil of MAya is lifted, then your world becomes
magnified a thousand fold.

But fall into true love.

And who cares what it is all about, as long as you are together.
Nothing else matters.

And what a wonderful thing it is too.

Life is not just 'if'

It is two or more good friends contemplating what 'if' means,
and etc.

The best things in life are indeed free.

But in my notes. In my own hitchhikers guide to the galaxy,
like the one of Douglas Adams, I will put a note in the margin
for earth.

"Come here rich and good looking or don't come alone"

Because on earth you need a head start. If you are born with
a head start, then earth can be a paradise.

Be born an untouchable, and it can be hell.

Gee look at the time.

I am rambling on.

Sorry, I seem to be writing a thesis.

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Old 11-11-2003, 02:24 PM
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Default Thesis on MacDougall Space and the Astral Form part 2

[Only registered users see links. ] (Rick Sobie) wrote

No, you are just providing ammo for your relatives to use when they
decide to institutionalize you.

- and your friends, the ghosts, won't be able to help much
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Old 11-12-2003, 03:26 AM
Rick Sobie
Posts: n/a
Default Thesis on MacDougall Space and the Astral Form part 2

In article <[Only registered users see links. ] >, [Only registered users see links. ] says...

As I see it after ready replies such as yours, much of the
western world is nothing more than an asylum.

Where people busy themselves in pointless jobs working to
the beat of a drum, and to the tick of a clock, busy busy
busy, so they do not have to think.

Shutting out anything that doesn't fit into nice neat little

Just putting in their time. Trying to go through life with the
rest of the herd. Stay in the middle of the pack bob.
It's safer there. But watch you don't get trampled.
They're mighty skiddish don't ya know.

There's trouble brewin I can smell it.

The Rockafellers ganging up with Pat Robertson, attacking
Cheney. Cheney under investigation.

The herd putting up posters all over DC. With the ten
commandments on em.

America on the verge of bankrupcy. Boys commin home from
Iraq in body bags. Money all but run out. Joblessness on the

American dollar barely hangin on. People just praying
that the oil cartels don't go to the euro or the American dollar
could be wiped out. Everyone's savings gone. Their 401 k's are
hardly worth a plug nickle.

Deficit of a trillion dollars. In one year.

All the oil in the Caspian sea, is only worth 5 trillion dollars.

The debt, is already at 6 trillion.

Bankruptcies on the rise.

Power blackouts, global warming, fires, tornados. terrorists,
totalitarians, feudal lords fighting amongst themselves.

It looks like the beginning of a feeding frenzy.

And the American people are the food.

Grab what you can while you can. That is what it looks like.

The Republicans must know they will never get elected again,
so they are out to make the big grab. Take it all. As much
as they can. Before they leave office.

Yup, she don't look good at this point.

And to top it all off, they want to invade Saudi Arabia now!

I guess they need more oil money to keep them going.

Oh well. That's life I suppose.

We saw it commin, can;t say we didn't.

That is why during the French revolution the chopped off
the heads of the aristocracy!

And the same in the Russian Revolution.

Cause they never learn.

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Old 11-13-2003, 04:57 PM
Posts: n/a
Default Thesis on MacDougall Space and the Astral Form part 2

[Only registered users see links. ] (Rick Sobie) wrote:

Have you spent much time in the eastern world?

A woman I know works to the beat of a drum also.

[Only registered users see links. ]

Time to think ... about what? Until recently (seems getting older has
some benefits) my major complaint was that I was unable to stop
thinking. Sometimes, like at 3 AM, I just wanted to go to sleep. These
days I can get 5 whole hours of sleep a night!

Are you projecting?

You assume too much.

Much more than you'll ever realize.

There's always trouble brewing for those who look for it.

It's Rockefeller.

You have a lot of issues, don't you?

Bummer, eh? Are you jobless? I spent about 12 months out of the past 4
years w/o a job. Start-up fever came late to me and I didn't pick good
ones. I had a lot of fun though. Especially between jobs. I traveled a
lot. Asia, Europe, US, and Canada.

You watch too much TV, don't you. You really shouldn't waste too much
time doing that.

All this in response to one sentence from me? You really ought to
stand on a box in Central Park or something. You are a person in
serious need of an audience.

Tornados? One of these things is not like the other, one of these
things just doesn't belong.

Ya think?

Is that what you are doing?

Bush will win in 2004. The democrats will win in 2008. Jeb will run in
2012 and in 2016. It's too soon to guess the outcome. He will appeal
to the hispanic vote(his wife and the fact he is fluent in Spanish),
moderate Republicans, and good old boys.

The US will eventually invade (or at least attack) Syria and Iran

It's more complex than that.

Sorry dude but there won't be a second American revolution anytime
soon as much as you'd like there to be one. Besides, whacko whiners
like you would be amongst the first to be put up against the wall.
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