how to remove saponit deposit in a tube ?

If there is a deposit of saponit Mg3 (OH)2 [Si4O10] . 4 H2O in a tube, what
can be used to make the tube clean again ? Some kind of solvent ? Or is it
only possible to scratch away the deposit ? Thanks, Marcel

In article <bnj7d2$11abbg$[Only registered users see links. ].uni-berlin.de>, "Marcel
Verduyn" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote:


Try ultrasonic cleaning with some phosphate based detergent. It will help
to use a brush from time to time. J.J.

Thanks, but application of ultrasound is in those tubes (heat exchanger)
hardly possible. Could I use a phosphate based detergent with sufficiently
high concentration ? I know Tickopur which is Tenside + Phosphorsäure, is
that what you mean ? MV


"jacques jedwab" <[Only registered users see links. ].be> wrote in message
news:[Only registered users see links. ].ac.be...
what
it

"Marcel Verduyn" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message news:<bnj7d2$11abbg$[Only registered users see links. ].uni-berlin.de>...

If your tubes are not plastic - you could try a terpene. Limonene,
eucapyltus oil that sort of thing - just soak it - no scrubbing- you
will have to rinse tubes out with ethanol afterwards though. Don't
try it on plastic tubes - or you'll have a molten disaster on your
hands.

thanks, what about using as a cleaning solution a terpene in an aqueous
ethanol solution ?
(remove the saponit and the oily stuff at the same time)
MV


"Ness" <[Only registered users see links. ].au> wrote in message
news:b4a9e4d6.0310292237.753ab12b@posting.google.c om...
news:<bnj7d2$11abbg$[Only registered users see links. ].uni-berlin.de>...
what
it

Ethanolic solutions shouldn't be a problem - terpenes are not at all
soluble in water so if you have an aqueous ethanolic solution they
will drop out of solution.


"Marcel Verduyn" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message news:<bnqpe6$152t9c$[Only registered users see links. ].uni-berlin.de>...

[Only registered users see links. ] (Ness) wrote in message news:<b4a9e4d6.0310292237.753ab12b@posting.google. com>...

Now, an organic chemist is familiar with a
KOH/ETOH/Water bath for cleaning his
glassware.

An inorganic chemist once used a chromic
acid bath, since replaced with a propriatiary
powder to be dissolved in conc. H2SO4, IIRC

You suggest a terpene solvent (BTW...as a USA
chem student, like phase diagrams, I hardly ever
heard of "terpenes" :-).

Any lit. refs. on this? Or other posters
to confirm the assertion?


Mark

[Only registered users see links. ] (Mark Tarka) wrote in message news:<6b70c71c.0311031113.6b53df1d@posting.google. com>...


Unfortunately I do not have any lit refs on this - or posters! I only
have about 10 years working experience. And have done a bit of work
with terpenes. Which if you haven't heard of, then, I'm sorry I can't
help you. I thought this was about helping others - not feeding your
ego!

[Only registered users see links. ] (Ness) wrote in message news:<b4a9e4d6.0311052259.2d9536f8@posting.google. com>...

Inorganic deposits on glass is the issue.
You present no credentials so related.

If there're no others in the discipline to
support your acerbic statement...I win!


Mark (Yawn...)

"Marcel Verduyn" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:bnj7d2$11abbg$[Only registered users see links. ].uni-berlin.de...
Marcel,
Saponite is common soil, dirt, clay, benonite type stuff with various
stochiometries like what you showed above or compositions like
Nax-y(Mg3-yAly)AlxSi4-xO10(OH)2
Na0.3(Mg,Fe2+)3[(OH)2|(Si,Al)4O10]*4H2O
(Ca,Na)0.3(Mg,Fe)3(Si,Al)4O10(OH)2+4H2O

So, since this is a clay-soft material, off the bat, the first instinct
would be to remove it mechanically or with ultrasonic gismos like
one or 2 posters have suggested. Once done that then run a small
steel pig (SS-bristle bottle brush) thru the lines, like the big boys in
the oil biz do when they clean pipeline, only en miniature. Or,
alternatively just blast walnut shell or steel shot through the pipe
and be done with it.

If you want to go the chemical route, then a combo of
Nitric Acid + Acetic acid + Fluoboric acid (HNO3/MeCOOH/HBF4)
may do the trick since all the above elements in saponite will form
water soluble reaction products. The reaction will be slow.
Heat will fasten the solution process but exposure over many
hrs will attack the glass and metal tubes, but it will be ok on PP, PE
or PVC hoses.
MeCOOH 50-70% alone may be ok for use on Fe, SS or Alu-tubes.
MeCOOH/HBF4 in any conc may be ok for Fe, SS, but not for Alu.
Good luck,
hanson