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#1
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| If I know the spectrum of something (say, diatomic oxygen molecule O2), I can in principle compute its partition function. From that, I can in principle compute the molar heat capacity. If I keep T as a variable and ignore terms of certain orders, that should give me some explicit approximate formulas for the molar heat capacities. On the other hand, there are empirical formulas for the molar heat capacities, some of which I mentioned in my original posting on this topic. What I would like to know is whether the empirical formulas (that's all the SHOMATE equations I was referred to seem to be) can be obtained, at least approximately, by torturing the partition function until it gives you the molar heat capacity? I've been trying to do this myself by hand and am having a lot of problems with it, partly because of a lot of stupid mistakes that it takes time to locate and and correct. It would be encouraging to know that what I am trying to do is really possible before I get too bogged down in this. Is it, or is there something about the empirical formulas that isn't reflected in the spectroscopid approach? If it is possible, I would think that someone would already have published a paper illustrating the technique. If so, can someone please refer me to one or more articles where this has been carried out in detail for some specific molecules? Just to clarify, I'm under the impression that the papers of Spencer et al, which Denbigh's book cites and which I mentioned in my earlier posting, really give empirical formulas, which I understand to mean based on interpolating experimental measurements of the molar heat capacity. So I am assuming that those papers really don't have the answer to my question of deriving the equations from spectroscopic data. Ignorantly, Allan Adler [Only registered users see links. ] ************************************************** ************************** * * * Disclaimer: I am a guest and *not* a member of the MIT Artificial * * Intelligence Lab. My actions and comments do not reflect * * in any way on MIT. Moreover, I am nowhere near the Boston * * metropolitan area. * * * ************************************************** ************************** |
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#2
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| The person who reads this list who can best answer your question is probably Alan Harvey. At least one point is that the spectroscopic values you see in books pretty much are for isolated molecules, and neglect intermolecular interactions (low pressure limit). Another is that they pretty much neglect anharmonicities, which at least for polyatomics are not often measured (medium-low pressure limit). Another is that Shomate equations are fitting forms, which can and are used for condensed phases. So at least in those "limits" good luck. O2 should be simple enough, at least for "room" temperatures, although for 500 K and above you will have to include the low lying singlet levels. A lot of the "priimary" data comes from the JANAF tables which used statistical mechanics to extend calculations of enthalpy (and specific heat) to different temperatures. I would not be surprised if many of the Shomate eqs. in the webbook were fit to the JANAF tables calculated from statistical mechanics. josh halpern Allan Adler wrote: |
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#3
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| [Top-posting corrected for clarity] Josh Halpern wrote: I'm flattered -- don't recall having been invoked as an authority on this group before. Maybe he knew I work for NIST (although anything I write here is not in my official capacity). But I'm in a somewhat different area than the people who do things like derive ideal-gas properties for the JANAF tables -- actually those people are mostly gone due to budget cuts. To the best of my knowledge, the procedure goes as follows. First, you make a partition function (summation of all energy levels) the best you know how. And how that is done depends on the molecule. For well-studied (and simple) molecules, you can enumerate lots of levels essentially exactly, based on spectroscopic data maybe supplemented by theoretical calculations. For other molecules, you may have to make simplifying assumptions like harmonic vibrations, separation of vibration and rotation, etc. Then you can derive ideal-gas heat capacities from that. Those can then be fitted to a function like the Shomate equation for practical use. The original question was whether the Shomate equation is some approximation from the rigorous partition function. I don't know the answer to that for sure, since I don't know the origins of the Shomate equation, but I sort of doubt it. The rigorous formulas have exponentials in them (see any stat mech textbook in the section on the ideal diatomic gas). Which I suppose you could expand in these polynomial terms if you want, but I suspect the form of the equation is in some measure empirical. You mentioned O2 -- for that you could certainly use the ideal diatomic gas methods in the stat mech books at low and moderate temperatures. Higher-order spectroscopic terms for rotation-vibration coupling and anharmonicity would get you to somewhat higher temperatures. But the state-of-the-art numbers (like those in the JANAF tables) would be obtained from a more rigorous summation of energy levels. I tried to find where in the literature that was done for O2, and it looks like a German dissertation which probably isn't an accessible reference. But you can see a state-of-the-art approach for H2O (with references that might also be of interest) in: M. Vidler and J. Tennyson, "Accurate Partition Function and Thermodynamic Data for Water," J. Chem. Phys., vol. 113, pp. 9766-9771 (2000). -------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Allan H. Harvey, Boulder, CO "Any opinions expressed are mine, and should not be attributed to my employer, my wife, or my cats." |
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| capacities , equations , heat , molar |
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