Poison in Gold

in article [Only registered users see links. ], Biju Joseph at
[Only registered users see links. ] wrote on 8/11/03 12:42 PM:


If you have to ask, you probably should not be doing it at all! How can you
be sure that gold is safe. People using gold to treat arthritis sometime get
serious reactions. What herb are you talking about? Marijuana? Why is the
herb safe? How do you really know?

Bill

What kind of people are in this newsgroup?

I ask about surplus material and get the same kind of response! What is
this, if you're not one of the "in" gang you shouldn't even ask?!?

Is chemistry *so* much more dangerous than everything else in life? More
dangerous than *gasp* DRIVING?



"Repeating Decimal" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered users see links. ]...

Peter Gottlieb <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote:






Did you ever hear of liability? Generally the identity of a poster here is only
minimally, if at all, obscured. Do you think that a professional chemist would
risk a liability suit just because somebody asks for advice without paying cent
one for the advice? If you pay the person he can buy liability insurance and thus
provide advice with the certainty that there will be help from an insurance
company when the liability suit is filed. And yes, chemistry is more dangerous
than driving. And we buy liability insurance for the latter. When I was an under-
grad we used lots of asbestos and were exposed to much benzene. Now it is a no-
no in the chem lab. Yes, it's dangerous. If you have to ask and expect an answer
send a full release before the answer is provided.

FK

--
[Only registered users see links. ]
SDF Public Access UNIX System - [Only registered users see links. ]

"Peter Gottlieb" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote:


The problem is this: everybody knows that driving 80 mph into a
concrete abutment is going to end your life. And most people
understand, at least on some level, that driving stupidly is a risk
factor for dying early. But most non-chemists do not understand the
perils of certain substances and the reactions which give rise to
them. If you're going to mess with chemistry you'd better know the
pitfalls, and they're not quite as obvious or easy to learn as those
involved in driving a car.

Steve Turner

Real address contains worldnet instead of spamnet

"Steve Turner" <[Only registered users see links. ].net> wrote in message
news:[Only registered users see links. ]...

People don't get out of bed in the morning and say "I'm going to drive
stupidly today." The danger in driving is that little, innoculous things
can kill. Your analogy does not work very well.

Telling someone that if they are asking the question in this forum they
shouldn't be doing what they are doing, and in the case of the gold, making
fun of what they are doing, is plain and simple, wrong.

If you know something and can answer their question, give advice, or help,
fine - do it, it will be appreciated.

Peter Gottlieb wrote:

You really should know whereof you speak before you do so. The courts
have frequently held that those who are specially trained in a given
subject carry special responsibility for misinformation freely provided
when injury results. An opinion is one thing. A faulty advice is another
indeed. I've had more than one close call in the laboratory as well as
handling of much dangerous material. But even though I've had my share
of fender benders I've never been involved in or even close to a serious
auto accident. Consider the death rate from automobiles - it really is
surprisingly small considering the enormous number of passenger miles
each year. The number of person lab hours each year is quite modest for
the number of deaths or serious accidents in laboratories. But then
again why bother to try to convince you. You apparently have your mind
made up and will not be deterred by facts.
FK

On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 02:24:59 GMT, "Peter Gottlieb" <[Only registered users see links. ]>
wrote:


Let's see, you asked:-
" Does anybody have some excess sheet (1-5mm) or chunks (at
least 1gm each) they can sell me? I'm looking for 99.5%+
purity and would like 25 - 30 grams total. "

Nowhere in that message did you say:-
1. You knew the hazards associated with Beryllium.
( A known human carcinogen, and subject to various OSH rules )
2. You have equipment and experience to handle/process it.
3. Why you needed it, and what you planned to do with it.
4. Where else you had looked.
etc. etc.

I responded with,
" Given the extreme hazard of working with beryllium, most
individuals would probably not sell it to strangers
beacuse of future liability.
There are companies like Goodfellow Metals
[Only registered users see links. ]
and Alfa Aesar
[Only registered users see links. ]
that probably sell the metal in sheet and lumps. they may
not sell to individuals.

Make certain you read the MSDS VERY CAREFULLY, and you
carefully review all the PPE needed to safely work with it,
given that it's a known human carcinogen."

What I got in response from you included,

" Alas, I have worked with Be before. Any Joe off the
street can buy small quantities of Be on eBay (where it is
also possible to get MUCH more hazardous stuff). Thanks for
the Goodfellow link. I already get stuff from Alfa Aesar,
their prices are the best so far. I was looking for some
inexpensive, surplus material, but guess this NG was a big
mistake as all I get are flames. "


My mistake was actually wasting any time on your post, as you
obviously don't heed your own advice, leaving a sour taste.

You didn't provide me with any of the relevant information
until afterwards, and then used my ignorance of your alleged
expert status as grounds for calling my response a flame.

Any expert using such metals would know about Alfa, Goodfellow,
and several others, and wouldn't post a question like that.
I had good reason to be cautious.

You want a flame, well let me oblige with a slight singe:-

You really are a total tosser, you keep obviously relevant
information to yourself, and when people respond politely
but cautiously, you whine and claim you're the victim of
scornful cliques and flames.

Bruce Hamilton

Peter Gottlieb wrote:


But people get up in the morning and without another thought about
changing their driving habits sally forth with incredibly bad driving
habits each and every day. Mostly they avoid accidents because of the
heroic maneuvers of other drivers. How many times have you had to
execute emergency maneuvers to avoid a collision with a bad driver? We
know that driving is dangerous that is why we have to watch out for the
idiocy of the other person. Even in chem laboratories I have had at my
insistence my direct supervision of the lab. Why, because I cruise the
room constantly. I've stopped more dangerous behavior than I could list
in a reasonable size journal over almost 40 years of teaching college
chemistry. Believe me it is dangerous and requires a long time to become
modestly competent in the laboratory. Now when you do something really
new in the lab, watch out!
FK

in article bh9cs1$cs1$[Only registered users see links. ].com, Fred Kasner at
[Only registered users see links. ] wrote on 8/11/03 5:37 PM:


I once visited Loyola Marymount U in Los Angeles. Chemistry majors there are
not allowed to use concentrated corrosive acids!

Bill

in article [Only registered users see links. ], Steve Turner at
[Only registered users see links. ] wrote on 8/11/03 7:06 PM:


Even well trained professional chemists get blind sided from time to time.

A few years ago, a woman who was an expert chemist died from methyl mercury
poisoning because of a momentary lapse.

Bill