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Sugar water as a fuel?

Sugar water as a fuel? - Chemistry Forum

Sugar water as a fuel? - Chemistry Forum. Discuss chemical reactions, chemistry.


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  #11  
Old 07-31-2003, 08:14 AM
dave.lister@web.de
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Default Sugar water as a fuel?

> Yep, you can't beat hydrocarbons, unless you don't have them. There's no

well.. the real thing outside of complete combustion on one side and
charring on the other will be the sugar caramellizing around the spark
plug or elsewhere in the cylinder. Drawing up the equation to go from
sugar to CO2 and H2O is nice, getting yer mixture to listen to it is
another.
Have you ever made caramel sweets as a kid? Sugar and cream and having
it slowly boil for hours? If that stuff doesn't kill any spark plug, i
don't know what will.

cheers

dave
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  #12  
Old 07-31-2003, 02:54 PM
Fred B. McGalliard
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Default Sugar water as a fuel?

For no particular reason, it occurs to me that sugar melts. So melt it and
forget the water. It decomposes rather than vaporizes, so you would probably
want to squirt the liquid into a stream of hot oxygen to burn it. I expect
you could make an IC engine to burn this, probably a diesel combustion
cycle, but it would likely be much easier to make an external combustion
engine, since the sugar breakdown and combustion is slower than burning
gasoline. As I recall, you can also burn sugar in potasium perchlorate.
Might be a good two fuel engine.


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  #13  
Old 07-31-2003, 07:08 PM
Joćo Antonio
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Default Sugar water as a fuel?

I don't know which tables you are using but they are tremendously wrong
From CRC Handbook 76th ed. (I name my sources):

Enthalpies of formation:
H2O(l) = -285,8 kJ/mol
H2O(g) = -241,8 kJ/mol
CO2(g) = -393,5 kJ/mol
H2(g) = 0
C(s, graphite) = 0
O2(g) = 0

Go home local hero, and get yourself a book



"Roland Paterson-Jones" <[Only registered users see links. ]> escreveu na mensagem
news:3f28872b$0$[Only registered users see links. ].co.za...
this


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  #14  
Old 07-31-2003, 07:10 PM
Joćo Antonio
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Default Sugar water as a fuel?

Roland, I don't care if you are black, white, green or a hill-orc.

Enthalpies of formation and combustion are not the same; they respond
to differentchemical equations. Look at any chemistry book, man.

"Roland Paterson-Jones" <[Only registered users see links. ]> escreveu na mensagem
news:3f288331$0$[Only registered users see links. ].co.za...
reaction
are
same.
but
is
you
is


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  #15  
Old 07-31-2003, 07:12 PM
Joe 123
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Default Sugar water as a fuel?

"Joćo, my point is that enthalpy of formation and enthalpy of combustion are
one and the same"

only in a reversible rx.


"Roland Paterson-Jones" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:3f288331$0$[Only registered users see links. ].co.za...
reaction
are
same.
but
is
you
is


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  #16  
Old 07-31-2003, 10:54 PM
David Lloyd-Jones
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Default Sugar water as a fuel?



Fred B. McGalliard wrote:

Fred,

Surely there is no argument for burning hot sticky sugar that
doesn't go all the more powerfully for running your engine on tar.

You don't even need to hike through the fields with your machete to
harvest the stuff: there's a pool of it in the bottom of every cat
cracker in the land. :-)


If you're going to go external, why not go coal? If you're
harvesting sugar, of course, you'd use bagasse, and sell the sugar.


All those potassium perchlorate stands out there sure need the business.

'Course the great thing about diesel is you can run it on anything.
With America now deciding to slim down, there's a gross surplus of
potato chips, potatoe chips in Republican areas, on the market. If
you crank the ignition temperature up high enough, couldn't we fire
up an engine on potato chip slurry? French fries and Coke, anyone?

Just think: Dr.Atkins dies, and Detroit switches from hydrocarbons
to carbohydrates!

-dlj.

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  #17  
Old 08-01-2003, 12:45 AM
Steve Turner
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Default Sugar water as a fuel?

"Roland Paterson-Jones" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote:


No, they are not.

Steve Turner

Real address contains worldnet instead of spamnet
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  #18  
Old 08-01-2003, 12:47 PM
Roland Paterson-Jones
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Default Sugar water as a fuel?

OK, thanks for all the corrections, and I guess I was wrong, and
over-reacted to a pissy reply to a geniune request for info.

I'll check it out in a chemistry book. My instinct (obviously wrong) is that
there can't be a difference between energy of combustion and energy of
formation (regardless of the interim chemicals and reactions), cos any
difference would let you round-trip and give you perpetual free energy or a
perpetual energy sink, neither of which I believe exists.

Sorry for being such a rude hill-orc, and thanks for the help.

Regards
Roland

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mobile: +27 72 386 8045
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"Joćo Antonio" <[Only registered users see links. ].br> wrote in message
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of
_formation_
formation
case


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  #19  
Old 08-01-2003, 12:48 PM
Roland Paterson-Jones
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Default Sugar water as a fuel?

"Steve Turner" <srturner1@spamnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:unojivongugsr5ltfe9qkbq9bj1ntv5t78@4ax.com...

Yes please, the tosser who originally posted would appreciate it

Roland


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  #20  
Old 08-01-2003, 08:14 PM
Joćo Antonio
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Default Sugar water as a fuel?

> I'm afraid not, you tireless truthseeker.

At least you reckon me as seeking the truth, instead of drifting in error.
I assume you too are seeking soem truth from your replies elsewhere
in this topic.

(1988).

Why can't you use a chemistry book?
This book you are using may *work* but will not give you a
chemically meaningful explanation.

reactions

If you are playing this "zero-sum" game as you mentioned elsewhere, It may
work,
but every single chemistry book I ever saw uses simple substances as
standards, so
from enthalpies of formation it is possible to check if a compound is
thermodinamically
stable. If you level things using H2O, CO2 and water, things get more
complicated.

I know it is all arbitrary, but if each one decides to redefine scientific
terms to his own
taste or use, we go back to alchemical hermetic writings.


I am Brazilian, not Italian or Spanish - entendeu mané?
So, maybe I made a mistake translating to English "enthalpy of combustion".


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