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WMDs aren't so easy to destroy without a trace...

WMDs aren't so easy to destroy without a trace... - Chemistry Forum

WMDs aren't so easy to destroy without a trace... - Chemistry Forum. Discuss chemical reactions, chemistry.


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  #1  
Old 07-02-2003, 05:22 AM
Robert Karl Stonjek
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Default WMDs aren't so easy to destroy without a trace...



"*v*" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered users see links. ]...
"destroyed"
into
so, for
advanced
fund the
those who
considerations
dope
RKS:
The Brits are so embarrassed about their outrageous claims that they
have removed it from their web site (number 10's official website).

I had a URL pointing to the page's place in the google cache - but that
seems to have mysteriously disappeared as well. Funny, google aren't
usually that efficient at cleaning out their cache (six weeks after a
page is withdrawn from the web?) Well, *I* have a copy.

In the document we find that Iraq supposed to have:-
8,500 litres of anthrax spores, weaponising 6,500 litres;
20,000 litres of the botulinum toxin, half of which are placed into
warheads;
2,000 litres of Aflatoxin, weaponising 1,500 litres;
5,000 litres of gangrene Gas;
10 litres of ricin;
up to 3,000 tonnes of precursor chemicals including 300 tonnes suitable
for VX;
up to 360 tonnes of bulk CW agent;
over 30,000 special munitions for delivery of chemical and biological
agents.

That's 38,860 tonnes (not counting the munitions). At 30 tonnes per semi
trailer this would have taken 1,295 loads to ship the material to hiding
places. Yet America's spy satellite, drones and spy planes saw nothing
suspicious??

It is noteworthy that Bush has recently claimed that looters probably
took the stuff before the US military could get to it. So what are poor
Iraqis going to do with 38,860 tonnes of deadly materials?

To hear a CIA agent spill his guts (on BBC radio) copy and paste ALL of
the URL below into your browser:-
pnm://rm.bbc.net.uk/news/media/audio/39123000/rm/_39123788_wmd08_thielma
n2way.rm?title="Former
top US intelligence official Greg
Thielman"&author="http://news.bbc.co.uk/"&copyright="(C)
British Broadcasting Corporation"

I know it is a lot, but believe me it actually does work.

--
Kind Regards,
Robert Karl Stonjek.


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  #2  
Old 07-02-2003, 04:56 PM
Jerry
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Default WMDs aren't so easy to destroy without a trace...

Robert Karl Stonjek <[Only registered users see links. ].au> wrote:


or just use

[Only registered users see links. ]

tinyurl and makeashorterlink are your friends.
--
Above the tumult and the strife,
I hear the music ringing;
It sounds an echo in my soul
How can I keep from singing? -- Doris Plenn
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  #3  
Old 07-03-2003, 12:21 AM
Robert Karl Stonjek
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Posts: n/a
Default WMDs aren't so easy to destroy without a trace...


"Jerry " <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message
news:b532233d965ec2565d4d336f237f9d4e@free.teranew s.com...
of
pnm://rm.bbc.net.uk/news/media/audio/39123000/rm/_39123788_wmd08_thielma
RKS:
Thanks. I have actually been using tinyurl for some time but thought
that it wouldn't work with the above. To stupid to check my conjecture
(on this rare occasion). Thanks.

There is also "SmallURL". How these guys survive with what is
essentially a free service is beyond me - there must be a catch?

--
Kind Regards,
Robert Karl Stonjek.


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  #4  
Old 07-03-2003, 12:21 AM
*v*
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Posts: n/a
Default WMDs aren't so easy to destroy without a trace...


"Robert Karl Stonjek" <[Only registered users see links. ].au> wrote in message
news:G_tMa.93$[Only registered users see links. ].au...
<snip>

Good point. Well, I have a clever hack of my own to reveal, of the red pill
sort - Note that the WWW article I referenced is dated "030609" (Euro notation
for Yankee 6/9/03), and a summary can still be found giving that as posting date
and the relevant subject matter - BUT, my OP post is dated 5/31, more than a
week earlier (!?) with replies following hot after. How? That would be
telling...
More important: More than a month later, still no evidence of WMD...
<[rundown of shitload of alleged material]>

Good refresher with reality.


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  #5  
Old 07-03-2003, 04:11 AM
Matt Giwer
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Default WMDs aren't so easy to destroy without a trace...

Robert Karl Stonjek wrote:




And given any reasonable battle field conditions 99.9% of it would be
wasted even if the troops were unprotected. One has to take into account
warhead errors and the density of troops. It is like the idiot Powell
holding up a little bit and saying it could kill tens of thousands and
not saying they would have to line up and each take their few thousand
spore dose.

Anthrax spores are particularly amusing in that even fully weaponized
with the slightest bit of moisture they do what spores do best, produce
bacteria. That is hell if inhaled but once contacting moisture on the
ground or in the air they are useless for inhaling.


And if people are exposed to it they will likely develop more cancers
in a few years. That the claim was made is but one of the reasons the
entire assertion was such patent nonsense.


One has to wonder what fool does not know gas gangrene is a description
of a type of infection that happens to produce gas as it multiples. The
gas not poisonous in itself and if memory serves correctly it is mostly
CO2.


Another of those with the problem of getting people to line up to get
their dose.


Tonnes (metric tons) which is easily converted to liters and therefore
volume if one assumes a liter of water is good enough for government for
estimating purposes.


And some nerfbrain actually claim there was a satellite photo of one of
the shells being loaded. It does not appear he underestimated the
intelligence of 1/3 of Americans.



If Bush actually believes it why is he doing nothing about it? As he is
doing nothing about it, he is lying again.

--
Even the deaf can hear a falling coin.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 2719

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  #6  
Old 07-03-2003, 06:27 PM
Dr. George O. Bizzigotti
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Default WMDs aren't so easy to destroy without a trace...

There's not much to add to the debate about why the UN and virtually
all of the world's intelligence services agreed that large amounts of
Iraqi chemical and biological weapons had not been not properly
accounted for; readers can find the UNSCOM and UNMOVIC reports on
line. However, there are a few factual inaccuracies, worthy of
correction, that have crept into that debate.

On Thu, 03 Jul 2003 04:11:59 GMT, Matt Giwer <[Only registered users see links. ].com>
wrote:


That's simply not true. Anthrax spore germination requires much more
than just moisture. The process requires that receptor proteins on the
spore’s membrane bind to structures found on certain amino acids and
ribonucleosides. See:

[Only registered users see links. ]

In effect, anthrax germinates only when ingested by a host animal, or
when cultured under very specific conditions. Mr. Giwer has claimed in
several posts to this thread that a trivial amount of moisture is all
that is required to trigger germination, i.e., spores producing
vegetative bacteria; the scientific literature indicates otherwise.

[snip]



According to UNSCOM, the Iraqis produced hundreds of liters of
Clostridium perfringens at Al Hakum; UNSCOM destroyed the site, but I
believe that the C. perfringens culture remains unaccounted for. The
original British document was pulled from the web, so one cannot check
who made the error, but I very strongly suspect that the British used
"gas gangrene" as a synonym for C. perfringens, and that someone
transposed the words when transcribing the list.

Regards,

George
************************************************** ********************
Dr. George O. Bizzigotti Telephone: (703) 610-2115
Mitretek Systems, Inc. Fax: (703) 610-1558
3150 Fairview Park Drive South E-Mail: [Only registered users see links. ]
Falls Church, Virginia, 22042-4519
************************************************** ********************


-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
[Only registered users see links. ] - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 80,000 Newsgroups - 16 Different Servers! =-----
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  #7  
Old 07-03-2003, 07:34 PM
Lloyd Parker
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Default WMDs aren't so easy to destroy without a trace...

In article <[Only registered users see links. ]>,
Dr. George O. Bizzigotti <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote:

No, the Bush administration specifically gave some amounts in liters and
amounts of OTHER substances in tons.



Overlooked the "3000 tons of precursor chemicals"?



So where did they take it all, that the CIA couldn't see? And where are all
the delivery systems?


And what, the trucks are all sitting in a rest stop somewhere?

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  #8  
Old 07-04-2003, 07:46 AM
maginsta@cox.net
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Default WMDs aren't so easy to destroy without a trace...


On 2-Jul-2003, Matt Giwer <[Only registered users see links. ].com> wrote:

Because there is nothing to do:: they don't exist.

I did not see the inspectorrs' reports from 1998, but I did hear Colin
Powell make his presentation befoe the UN.

If one paid close attention it could be seen that he ws speaking of pure
speculation.

His statements forllowed this patten all the way through; and because he was
so precise in prefacing every claim in the same manner, I know he was
playing word games and knew it. I lost all respect for the man at that
time.

'The inspectors' reports SUGGEST that Iraq COULD HAVE PRODUCED ......'

Then a few days later, it wass:

'What has Iraq done with that . . . '

From supposition and speculation to existence in 48 hours.

I would also note that the meedia is helping him by no longer playing his
speeches in which he sated that Iraq must be disarmed and will be disarmed.


Now all they had was a program.

One does not go to wr to disarm a program! But Powell, Bush and all of them
knew that they offering smoke rings.

The reason we are in Iraq is we want the area as a basse for our military.
We have one goal at any cost: to prevent any country hostile to Israel
from getting nukes!

There wont be elections: the Shias would take over and kick us out. We
want a goveernment which will ask us to STAY. Absent that, we are not going
to leave Iraq eer.

The sad part is that if another party got the presidency, the policy would
not change because it is seen as an imperaive in orde4r to prevent nuclear
war in the Middle east.

Maginsta
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  #9  
Old 07-05-2003, 07:35 AM
Matt Giwer
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Default WMDs aren't so easy to destroy without a trace...

Dr. George O. Bizzigotti wrote:

That abstract appears to be addressing culturing anthrax not its
natural environment. The disease clearly does not transmit by ingestion
or inhalation else it would barely spread at all.

To say it more completely, it is weaponized with a material which keeps
it clumped at the right size to lodge in the lungs, neither to big nor
to small. The source of moisture in the lungs is obvious.

Upon being separated from the weaponizing material it has a short time
to be inhaled. Gravity works. It absorbs moisture. It falls ot the
ground where the natural composition of soil contains whatever else is
needed for it to grow.

Yes, of course more than just moisture is needed just as a seed needs
more than just moisture to produce a tree.

The world is infected with antrax. It grows in the soil. Most strains
are harmless. In rare cases dangerous strains reproduce in quantity and
cause local outbreaks.




I thought of that possibility. I was more amused to make fun of it. But
taking it that way it is like that teaspoon of anthrax. "All you guys
with serious open wounds line up so we can infect you with it."

--
Palestians are resisting occupation as the French and
Poles resisted Nazi occupation.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 2709

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  #10  
Old 07-05-2003, 08:01 AM
Matt Giwer
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Default WMDs aren't so easy to destroy without a trace...

[Only registered users see links. ] wrote:




This is how we know the US media is a government asset. You don't have
to know a thing about weapons of any kind to know those kinds of words
are a con. Used car salesmen are not that blatant in their lies.


And I followed every claim on the internet and not one lie lasted more
than 48 hours before being exposed. The US media does not know how to
logon, public school education most likely.



Clearly a government asset.


That is not clear either. Rather at this late date we still have no
definitive reason for it.


The lowest gov number is now two years after telling the troops they
would be home for the 4th.

OTOH: we still garrison Germany and Britain.


Boycott 2004. Nothing will change. And a boycott is a common way for
people to reject fixed elections no matter how they are fixed.

--
Palestians are resisting occupation as the French and
Poles resisted Nazi occupation.
-- The Iron Webmaster, 2709

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