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Tomatoes and Crop Rotation

Tomatoes and Crop Rotation - Botany Forum

Tomatoes and Crop Rotation - Botany Forum


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  #1  
Old 02-20-2005, 03:06 AM
Salty Thumb
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Default Tomatoes and Crop Rotation




"newsgroup" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in news:cv8mgr$4a1
@news.icubed.com:



I am speculating, but it is possible that tomatoes, which aren't
aboriginally annual, make persistent modifications to their rhizosphere
in the form of complex root exudates which supercede any nutrient
replenishment benefit due to rotation. It could be that the persistence
is enough to provide an annual basal level of support (or protection)
which is not renewed if a different crop is planted or perhaps the effect
is compounded with each successive generation.

Perhaps someone in sci.bio.botany knows.
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  #2  
Old 02-20-2005, 03:32 AM
Jim Carlock
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Default Tomatoes and Crop Rotation

"newsgroup" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote:

I have four tomato plants growing in one pot. One fruited last month
and the tomato is doing getting nice and bigger. It looks like it might
have another 30 or 45 days left before it's ready to be pulled. The
pot is a rather small pot, but I haven't had this much success with
tomatoes planted in the sand/ground... <g> I do have a couple
other tomatoes growing but they are nowhere as nice as the four
that sit together in one small pot.

While one fruited and has ONE fairly good size tomato, the other
plants flowered and some really small fruits set up. They seem to
like the colder weather, versus hot weather. The vines seem to
droop if they are placed in the direct sun during the day. I guess
the temps are about 40 to 45 at night and 65 to 75 during the
day right now. I had the small pot indoors in a windowed sun
room for the longest time, before the plants became too big.
They are growing like vines! And there are quite a few very
small fruits set now. I'm guessing it takes about 2 to 3 months
for a tomato to grow to full ripeness... does that sound right?

And if they are annual I shouldn't expect any more tomatoes
until next year, right?

--
Jim Carlock
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"Salty Thumb" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote:


I am speculating, but it is possible that tomatoes, which aren't
aboriginally annual, make persistent modifications to their rhizosphere
in the form of complex root exudates which supercede any nutrient
replenishment benefit due to rotation. It could be that the persistence
is enough to provide an annual basal level of support (or protection)
which is not renewed if a different crop is planted or perhaps the effect
is compounded with each successive generation.

Perhaps someone in sci.bio.botany knows.


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  #3  
Old 02-20-2005, 01:29 PM
bae@cs.toronto.no-uce.edu
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Default Tomatoes and Crop Rotation

In article <79TRd.13186$uc.6729@trnddc09>,
Salty Thumb <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote:

Tomatoes are perennials in frost-free climates. Like many other
tropical perennials, they are grown as annuals in colder climates.
Wild forms escape soil borne pathogens by genetic diversity, by
inducing birds and other herbivores to eat their fruit and carry their
digestion-resistant seeds elsewhere, and by "crawling" away from the
problem. A tomato plant allowed to clamber and sprawl can move quite a
distance over time by growing away from the root, rooting at many
nodes.

Despite their great visible variety, doamesticated tomatoes are
actually quite low in genetic diversity because all cultivars descend
from a small number of wild plants. Breeders sometimes have to use
wild strains to obtain resistance to new strains of pest.

On a home garden scale, crop rotation is somewhat useful to reduce the
effects of soil borne pests and diseases, but since the gardener moves
soil from one area to another on tools and otherwise, it's not
perfect. Also, some pathogens, like the one that causes club root in
brassicas, can persist without a host for a decade or more. While
rotation does spread out the use of soil nutrients over crops that
prefer different ratios, a home garden, even an organic one, is usually
adequately or even over-fertilized. Crop rotation can also be used
effectively to control persistent weeds.

Tomatoes are susceptible to a number of serious soil borne pathogens,
especially nematodes, but many modern varieties have genetic resistance
to this and other problems. Also note that soil borne diseases don't
readily travel very far, so even in an area where a particular pest or
disease is a problem, your garden may not be affected.

Since growing a garden is not really all that hard once you have a
little experience, almost any kind of advice can be harmless, at
least. This basic human activity is prone to innumerable handwaving
ideas, and since almost anything works, people who try them usually
succeed, and believe in them. In the absence of real testing, i.e.,
with controls, under various conditions of soil and weather, over
several years, with accurate measurements, it's impossible to really
find out if a scheme has any particular value.

I've been gardening more or less organically (I sometimes use a little
fertilizer, mainly for transplants) for over thirty years. I live in a
city, although years ago I had a small market garden in a rural area.
My present garden uses intensive methods, and in an effort to save
space while still letting everything get as much sun as possible, I
grow a lot of things vertically, which reduces my ability to rotate.
I've been using this garden for twelve years, and have no problems with
soil borne pathogens, partly because I almost never buy transplants.
(I brought club root into a previous garden with a box of six red
cabbage plants and have learned my lesson!)

As for tomato expertise, I'm interested in unusual and old varieties
and often grow twenty or more cultivars each year. This past year a
new disease hit my area, some kind of bacterial rot, I believe. Some
varieties were clobbered, some were lightly to moderately affected, and
a few showed essentially complete resistance. I thought this was
extremely cool, and my neighbors brought their friends over to see
perfectly healthy tomato plants entwined with dying plants hung with
unripe fruit rotting to slush on the vine.
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  #4  
Old 02-21-2005, 07:17 PM
Jim Carlock
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Default Tomatoes and Crop Rotation

I was wondering about rooting a tomato... I've had this stem
in a cup of water for about a week now and I don't see any
roots growing yet, so I decided it's time to look this up.

And I found the following...
This looks like some very interesting information...
[Only registered users see links. ]

--
Jim Carlock
Post replies to newsgroup.


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  #5  
Old 02-24-2005, 10:29 PM
bae@cs.toronto.no-uce.edu
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Default Tomatoes and Crop Rotation

In article <xtqSd.76863$pc5.41156@tornado.tampabay.rr.com>,
Jim Carlock <anonymous@localhost.com> wrote:

Be patient. IME, tomatoes are as easy to root as geraniums or coleus
(i.e. dead easy). If you're keeping that cup of water on your
windowsill, note that this time of year it may be too cold there
for tropical plants like tomatoes to grow much, so it will take longer
than if you can keep the cuttings at summer temps.


This is an extremely cool document. (How to Grow the Tomato and 115 Ways
to Prepare it for the Table by George Washington Carver, 2nd edition 1936)

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  #6  
Old 02-25-2005, 05:47 PM
simy1
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Default Tomatoes and Crop Rotation


[Only registered users see links. ] wrote:


the
moves
usually

I will beg to disagree on fertilization. I have Sahara sandy soil in
Michigan which is poor and needs to be replenished most years and
certainly for the first 3-4 years. 1000lb of wood chips, composted, may
have 1/4lb of potassium. But at 1gr per tomato, we are talking about
taking one pound away each year. The USDA specifies your daily dose of
K as three grams, and if you get it mostly out of the garden, we are
talking about 3.5 lbs per year. We have had threads in the past about
heavily depleted garden soil, and casual composting of dead leaves and
clippings will simply not replenish that. You are talking about
manuring each year, basically.

Depletion by herbivory in the garden, coupled with nutrient loss
through the sand, is a major effect for some of us. And the nutrient
profiles of the crops really are very different.

one other advantage of rotation is the possibility of having succession
crops. Besides peas leaving nitrogen for cabbage, you also have a
chance of not manuring this year, and plant carrots or parsnips. If you
have clay, you also have succession crops based on the crop ability to
break soil, followed by crops with weaker root systems.

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  #7  
Old 02-25-2005, 11:00 PM
keith.michaels@gmail.com
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Default Tomatoes and Crop Rotation


simy1 wrote:
in
may
of
and
succession
you
to

So there's a vegetable crop that thrives in clay soil? I should find
out what it is!

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  #8  
Old 02-26-2005, 04:55 PM
simy1
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Default Tomatoes and Crop Rotation


[Only registered users see links. ] wrote:



fava beans. cabbage prefers it heavier than normal. some of the water
thirsty veggies, like cardoon or fennel (possibly celery, though I
don't know). radicchio and other chicories, as well as dandelion. peas
prefer it heavier. potatoes may come out misshapen, but they will do
well in clay soil. herbs won't mind the clay unless it is waterlogged.
I think there are more veggies that prefer heavy soil than there are
that prefer sandy soil.

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