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Archimedes Plutonium 06-11-2004 06:36 PM

grafted rootstock
 
I am questioning an assumption. I assume that all shoots emanating from
a grafted tree of its original rootstock is to be pruned off and
suppressed so that the graft becomes the sole plant above ground. Is
that assumption in error? Or can a tree be allowed to express itself
without the graft being exclusive expression above ground?

I wonder if there is an advantage to not cutting off all rootstock
shoots.


P van Rijckevorsel 06-11-2004 07:39 PM

grafted rootstock
 
Archimedes Plutonium <[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]> schreef


+ + +
Yes. That is pretty much the point of the graft
+ + +

without the graft being exclusive expression above ground?

+ + +
As a rule the rootstock will overgrow the graft, as the rootstock will be of
tougher stock than the graft, that being the reason for using it in the
first place.
+ + +


+ + +
Depends on what you want and how much time you are willing to spend.
PvR





Iris Cohen 06-11-2004 09:21 PM

grafted rootstock
 
You never stop and think things through, which leads to your asking silly
questions. Get a book out of the library on grafting & you will soon find out.
Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)

Christopher Green 06-12-2004 12:14 AM

grafted rootstock
 
Archimedes Plutonium <[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]>...

The problem with leaving the shoots from the rootstock (called suckers
or watersprouts) in place is that the plant will devote some of its
available energy to these rather than to the valuable top growth.

The rootstock in grafted plants is chosen to resist disease and to
support the top growth (also, particularly in the case of dwarfing
rootstock, to regulate it), not because it has any other value.

Plants on which suckers or watersprouts are allowed to persist will
produce less vegetative growth, flowers, or fruit on the top growth;
if persistently neglected, the top growth may languish, die back, or
even be lost to disease. This is particularly so with the dwarfing
rootstocks commonly used for fruit trees.

--
Chris Green

Archimedes Plutonium 06-12-2004 08:37 AM

grafted rootstock
 
11 Jun 2004 17:14:16 -0700 Christopher Green wrote:


I wonder if anyone has quantified the success at which a grafted tree lives versus the success
of a cutting. In a cutting you have no root system. In a graft you have a root system yet a top
removed and replaced by a new top.

For example with Sunburst Honeylocust cuttings, few if any will live but with grafts almost
100% will live.

Grafts versus cuttings should be quantifiable and linked to stem cell quantity.

Yew trees are easy via cuttings but honeylocust are difficult so is there a large difference in
numbers of stem cells in yew versus honeylocust?



Chuck 06-12-2004 05:23 PM

grafted rootstock
 
You need to go to the library, find a book about grafts and cuttings, and
read it. That is, if you are really interested.

Chuck


"Archimedes Plutonium" <[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]> wrote in message
news:[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]...
news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]>...
from
lives versus the success
root system yet a top
with grafts almost
quantity.
a large difference in



Christopher Green 06-12-2004 06:16 PM

grafted rootstock
 
On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 03:37:14 -0500, Archimedes Plutonium
<[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]> wrote:


The answer is a merely practical one: grafting is done when either:

* This is a good means of propagating a desirable plant; for example,
if the plant does not tend to root from cuttings or layerings.

* The rootstock has desirable qualities that the plant, rooted on its
own, would not have. These may include resistance to disease or pests
(as in grapes) or growth regulation (as in dwarf fruit trees).

--
Chris Green


Archimedes Plutonium 06-14-2004 08:10 AM

grafted rootstock
 
Sat, 12 Jun 2004 18:16:29 GMT Christopher Green wrote:


I do not know what layering is. I know cuttings. Can you describe layering..

Off topic. I now like my bush cherries prunus tomentosa. But for the past 2 years have been unable
to get a single seedling. I wonder if they require going through the gut of a bird?

I wonder why any plant would evolve to the point where they depended on the gut of a bird rather
than viability without the gut. This gut dependency strikes me as a flaw in the theory of Darwin
Evolution. A plant seed has the greatest survivability if it had no bird gut dependency so that if
the bird ate the seed or did not eat the seed would be viable in either case.


Phred 06-14-2004 01:01 PM

(1) Layering and (2) seed dispersal [Was: grafted rootstock]
 
In article <[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]>, NOiwEMAIL wrote:

Cut a narrow ring around the branch (like ring-barking) bend it down
to the ground and "plant" it so the cut is under ground. Wait until
roots form from the portion above the cut then chop it off below the
cut and plant the top section normally.


Some plants won't grow under the parent, so it's advantageous for them
to move away. Also, if you want to take over the world you'll find it
hard to do if you just stay in one place. :-)

But I take your point, and I suspect the answer is that most seeds
*can* be made to grow without passing through the gut of an animal.
However, if the plant needs to be dispersed to avoid the consequences
of allelopathy, then, if it is too heavy to just blow around on the
wind, it needs something to carry it. If that something is an animal
that eats the fruit, then the seed needs to be able to survive passage
though the gut. And if it is to do that successfully, it probably
needs to be fairly resistant to "normal" processes conducive to
germination for the time being. Passing through the gut may well
neutralise this "dormancy" factor, thus enabling the seed to germinate
successfully before it dies. (Plants in moist environments, such as
the tropical rainforests, often seem to have recalcitrant seeds which
both die quickly in nature and are difficult to store even with the
best of technology.)


Cheers, Phred.

--
[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]LID


Christopher Green 06-14-2004 02:48 PM

grafted rootstock
 
Archimedes Plutonium <[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered and activated users can see links. Click Here To Register...]>...

Get a book on plant propagation. It will be well described there.

Layering is an alternative to making cuttings that preserves some of
the connection to the parent plant; the layered tip is less stressed
than a cutting would be. Many plants that are difficult from cuttings
are easier from layerings.


No, it may have a much greater viability with a "bird gut dependency".
Seeds that require a pass through a digestive tract, or a fire, or a
freeze and thaw are generally also well protected and will survive
harsh conditions in dormancy. They will receive better dispersal or
germinate under better conditions, and so will end up with a greater
yield.

--
Chris Green


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