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  #11  
Old 06-15-2004, 09:11 AM
Archimedes Plutonium
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Default flaw in Darwin Evolution Re: grafted rootstock


14 Jun 2004 07:48:46 -0700 Christopher Green wrote:
(snipped)


No, this is a flaw in Darwin Evolution theory. Your above is another example of "postdiction" of Darwin
Evolution. This particular flaw is that of "generalist" versus "specialist" and that when a plant or
animal becomes too specialist faces the quick road to extinction. If you look at the record of species
gone extinct it is replete with specialists, seldom any generalist.

Give you an example I recently encountered. I kept finding dug holes near a garage concrete slab and
determined to trap the culprit. Come to find out it was possums. Possums generally live in trees and
make their homes there, but in cold climates they have the habit of digging down deep under to survive
the winter. So they are generalists and have spread their domain. So by Darwin Evolution we can
understand that this generalizing of behaviour is a survival value and increases the range of the
species and the numbers of the species. But Darwin Evolution would be deaf dumb and silent and
postdiction as to why any animal or plant species (prunus tomentosa specializing to have its seed
germinate only if passed through bird gut). So no plant or animal would make a choice of going to be
specialized from that of generalized. So, Darwin Evolution is again a flawed theory which works okay in
large part but is flawed and frayed at all margins. It is an algorithm, a rule of thumb. The true
theory that replaces Darwin Evolution is what John Bell, the physicist called Superdeterminism. For you
cannot have a world where both Darwin Evolution and Superdeterminism co-exist.

Archimedes Plutonium
[Only registered users see links. ]
[Only registered users see links. ]
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

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  #12  
Old 06-15-2004, 11:12 AM
P van Rijckevorsel
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Default flaw in Darwin Evolution Re: grafted rootstock

Archimedes Plutonium <[Only registered users see links. ]> schreef
example of "postdiction" of Darwin Evolution. This particular flaw is that
of "generalist" versus "specialist" and that when a plant or animal becomes
too specialist faces the quick road to extinction. If you look at the record
of species gone extinct it is replete with specialists, seldom any
generalist.

+ + +
The keyword here is "too specialist".
Species can go extinct when they become "too generalist" also
+ + +

from that of generalized.

+ + +
Lots of them do, for very good reasons. Specialists outcompete generalists,
as long as their specialty applies. This leads to increased chances of
survival.
+ + +

rule of thumb.

+ + +
As algorithms are something entirely different from rules of thumb, you may
want to choose which you mean?
+ + +


+ + +
This is a contradiction in terms. Something either is true (seen from a
religious perspective) or a theory (a scientific law). A "true theory" is a
falsehood.
+ + +

Superdeterminism. For you cannot have a world where both Darwin Evolution
and Superdeterminism co-exist.

+ + +
Allright, as I cannot have it, maybe you should have it?
PvR





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  #13  
Old 06-15-2004, 03:33 PM
Christopher Green
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Default flaw in Darwin Evolution Re: grafted rootstock

Archimedes Plutonium <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message news:<[Only registered users see links. ]>...

That is merely silly. You know nothing of what you speak.

--
Chris Green
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  #14  
Old 06-15-2004, 03:56 PM
Ian Stirling
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Default flaw in Darwin Evolution Re: grafted rootstock

In sci.physics Archimedes Plutonium <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote:

However, evolution does not work to long-term species survival, but
comparative advantage between offspring.
If in the past a certian behaviour or characteristic has benefited the
species to go into being a specialist, then the species may become very
specialist indeed, and sensitive to the loss of whatever they specialise
in.

Evolution cannot look ahead, and wonder what happens if the Goobly tree
becomes extinct due to Dutch Goobly disease, and there are no
Gooblyberries to eat.
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  #15  
Old 06-15-2004, 04:01 PM
Cereus-validus
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Default flaw in Darwin Evolution Re: grafted rootstock

Are you just realizing that?

Archie has been posting crazy nonsense to this newsgroup for years. He is a
rather harmless kook and he makes an easy whipping boy because he is such a
misinformed delusional fool.

Archie is the poster boy for deviant de-evolution
"Are we not men? We are DEVO!"

"Christopher Green" <[Only registered users see links. ].net> wrote in message
news:c31fa7b1.0406150733.6997f62a@posting.google.c om...
news:<[Only registered users see links. ]>...
example of "postdiction" of Darwin
"specialist" and that when a plant or
look at the record of species


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  #16  
Old 06-16-2004, 12:04 AM
Christopher Green
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Default flaw in Darwin Evolution Re: grafted rootstock

"Cereus-validus" <[Only registered users see links. ]> wrote in message news:<P3Fzc.1663$[Only registered users see links. ].prodigy.com >...

No, I know it full well...

--
Chris Green
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  #17  
Old 06-16-2004, 07:49 AM
Archimedes Plutonium
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Default flaw in Darwin Evolution Re: grafted rootstock

Tue, 15 Jun 2004 13:12:08 +0200 P van Rijckevorsel wrote:



May I interject environment into the above. It is the environment itself that
is forcing and shaping plant and animal species to go down a path of becoming
too specialist or too generalist. But then Darwin Evolution does not count the
"factor of environment". So Darwin Evolution is flawed on that account.




Well Ohms law is not a law of physics. It is a algorithm or rule of thumb. A
slide-ruler ( remember those old cumbersome instruments of the 1970s) is an
algorithm for finding a math answer but seldom gives you the precise and
accurate answer that a math computation gives.


Let us not be focused on semantics of words, theory, true, false when we need
to focus on Darwin Evolution.

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  #18  
Old 06-16-2004, 08:05 AM
Archimedes Plutonium
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Default flaw in Darwin Evolution Re: grafted rootstock

15 Jun 2004 15:56:21 GMT wrote:


Same thing I told P van Rijckevorsel. The factor of "Environment" is missing in Darwin Evolution theory
which as a factor is probably more important than the other 4 factors of differential reproductive success,
geographical isolation, etc etc.

We do not expect Darwin Evolution to be hovering over ever species and moving its members along on the road
of greatest success.

But if a force of Environment is such that it moves a large number of species every year from becoming more
Specialist and losing its Generalist tendencies
(eg prunus tomentosa losing its ability of viable seeds unless passed through the gut of a bird).

Then, well, Darwin Evolution has a huge gap missing in that the Environment is shaping the future of species
more than the 4 factors espoused in Darwin Evolution.

And it is exactly a factor of Environment that the theory of Superdeterminism would say is more important
than the other 4 factors given by Darwin Evolution.

So why should any member of any species be seen as success or survival when the entire species is hurly
gurly burly roller coastering into extinction.

If Darwin Evolution is deaf dumb and silent about whether a species is becoming too specialist rather than
generalist, whilst Environment is dictating what species is made to be more specialist, well, obviously
there are huge holes and flaws and gaps in Darwin Evolution.

Archimedes Plutonium
[Only registered users see links. ]
[Only registered users see links. ]
whole entire Universe is just one big atom where dots
of the electron-dot-cloud are galaxies

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  #19  
Old 06-16-2004, 11:38 AM
P van Rijckevorsel
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Default flaw in Darwin Evolution Re: grafted rootstock

Archimedes Plutonium <[Only registered users see links. ]> schreef

+ + +
You can interject it, but that does not make it relevant
+ + +

species

+ + +
There is quite a bit of literature on adaptation
+ + +


+ + +
The question of "too" is a different matter entirely
+ + +


+ + +
You must have the wrong Evolution Theory then
+ + +


+ + +
? ? ?
+ + +

may want to choose which you mean?

A slide-ruler ( remember those old cumbersome instruments of the 1970s) is
an algorithm for finding a math answer but seldom gives you the precise and
accurate answer that a math computation gives.

+ + +
Perhaps you should get somebody to introduce you to the concept of
"dictionary" and help you look up words?
+ + +

need to focus on Darwin Evolution.

+ + +
That sounds like good advice. Maybe you should take it?
PvR










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  #20  
Old 06-16-2004, 12:52 PM
Iris Cohen
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Default flaw in Brain

<< Archie has been posting crazy nonsense to this newsgroup for years. He is a
rather harmless kook and he makes an easy whipping boy because he is such a
misinformed delusional fool. >>

Because this is a science group, I would like to explain "Archie" to those who
are new here. (If you want my credentials, I am a retired psychiatric social
worker). As far as I can deduce, he is a schizophrenic. In schizophrenia, the
neurotransmitter dopamine (& possibly others of less importance) is not
distributed normally in the brain. There is too much of it in some areas, which
causes delusions & hallucinations. There is often not enough of it in other
areas, which causes depression and lack of motivation. Schizophrenics have
great difficulty processing information both from within themselves & from the
outside world. This leads to distorted impressions and poor social skills. We
generally only hear about those schizophrenics who develop violent behavior,
which is a small percentage. The majority are harmless, albeit functioning on
the fringes.
Newer methods of physical diagnosis, like PET scans, have determined that parts
of the brains of schizophrenics use too little oxygen. There have long been
medicines, starting with Thorazine, which control the excess dopamine, reducing
psychotic symptoms, but only recently we have developed medicines like Abilify,
which also increase dopamine in the weak areas. However, medication has to be
accompanied by social sructure, counseling, and case management for these
people to function normally. Of course I have no way of knowing, but I suspect
Archie does not have any good family supports, and lives alone. In this modern
day & age, some of these people, especially those who are educated, have found
their way to the Internet & live in their own little world, which is more
comfortable than trying to navigate reality.
I strongly suspect that Archie's contact with plants is very fragmented &
sporadic. I think his farm and orchard are figments of his imagination. He sees
this or that tree in a park or nursery & asks questions. He also probably
frequents the library & reads up on gardening & evolution. However, his
disorder prevents him from integrating this knowledge or connecting any dots,
so he is left with his questions.
There are probably thousands of such people. It is a sad waste of human
potential, but there is nothing we can do except ignore him when he gets too
silly. The only other thing we can do is to pressure our legislators to enforce
adequate medical insurance for mental health treatment, and adequate community
mental health services. "A mind is a terrible thing to waste."


Iris,
Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40
"If we see light at the end of the tunnel, It's the light of the oncoming
train."
Robert Lowell (1917-1977)
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